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A comment on Jonathan's Card.

Re:Jonathan's Card by brianleb on Sunday August 07, 2011 @11:54PM (#2858692)
This reminds me of something that happened when I was just a bit younger... My girlfriend and I were graduating from pharmacy school and she was applying for residency positions (yes, they have those for pharmacists). Well, she found out she got the one she really wanted and so that night we went out to a nice dinner to celebrate. We did it up like you would expect a happy couple to - nice bottle of wine, share an appetizer and dessert, etc. We were still living on loans at the time and so in my head I was keeping track of about how much the meal was going to run me at the end of the night (for better or worse - keep in mind we were in college at the time). We had easily cleared a hundred bucks (quite the meal for college students who usually eat $7 sandwiches or more likely cook for themselves!), and when it was time for the bill, our waitress told us "The couple that was sitting over there paid for it."

!

You wanna talk about made our day? Try made our week. We had seen the older couple earlier, but we didn't know them, and they were gone by the time we got our bill. We couldn't even thank them, and we were just so... shocked. Since then, whenever we go out for a nice meal, I look for a young couple who looks happy and in love, just waiting to return that favor.

C.S. Lewis described altruism in one of his apologist books as a "good infection" - kindness that spreads uncontrollably. I can't do anything but agree.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by mikeleeorg on Monday August 08, 2011 @10:14AM (#2860115)
I once crossed the Bay Bridge from Oakland to San Francisco and when I hit the pay toll, the attendent told me the driver in front had paid for me. This has happened more than once.

So every once in a while, I'll do the same for a driver behind me - especially if they were generous enough to have let me merge into their lane (but usually, just as a random kind gesture).

Good infections rock.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by jonathanstark on Monday August 08, 2011 @12:27AM (#2858777)
Jonathan here:

Thank you so much for sharing your story – it really made my day. "Kindness that spreads uncontrollably" perfectly sums up my highest hopes for this experiment.

Best, j

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Re:Jonathan's Card by manojlds on Monday August 08, 2011 @02:07AM (#2859005)
Difference being there could be a time when I couldn't afford a hundred dollar dinner and then time when I can afford it. But a cup of coffee, not really sure if there will be times when I can afford and not afford it.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by bgurupra on Monday August 08, 2011 @06:03AM (#2859447)
actually I can see how this will get down voted - but if a person has a smart phone what are the chances he can't really pay for this coffee? (not a rhetorical question but a purely probabilistic one) - so maybe this experiment may not test the true altruistic nature of people but more the curiosity of participating in an experiment like this?
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Re:Jonathan's Card by Shenglong on Monday August 08, 2011 @09:36AM (#2860002)
I think it's more - sometimes you want to, sometimes you don't want to pay for a cup of coffee. Though, I don't think the experiment is to see if people are willing to give coffee to those who can't pay for it.

It's an experiment on social contribution, if I'm correct. Even though you can leech (and some will), a good amount of people might ultimately add more money than they spend from it. But why? Everyone is anonymous (kind of), and it's not like you have external pressure to be good.

If the amount on the card stays positive, you may have renewed my faith in at least a portion of mankind, Jonathan Stark.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by startupfounder on Monday August 08, 2011 @09:15AM (#2859928)
Maybe it is a thought experiment, but what we see from Brian's story is that this thought process can be taken outside of the tech/HN/twitter bubble we all live in. It might kind of be enlightening to try this out in the real world (buy a coffee with cash for a stranger) then come back and share your experience.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by YetAnotherAlias on Monday August 08, 2011 @10:49AM (#2860219)
I have heard similar restaurant stories happen to some of my friends. Jonathan's card is also a good idea.

However, I can't help wondering that with all this technology we are ending up in a situation where the Haves help the Haves and they all feel better for a little while. What can we do to make it easy to help the really needy? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just as easily drop $10 to help someone eat a few meals a day? I am aware of all the real world problems and constraints, but I hope these examples inspire some of HN community to build stuff that will help those that really need it.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by Eliezer on Tuesday August 09, 2011 @12:57AM (#2862969)
http://xkcd.com/871/

and

http://lesswrong.com/lw/6z/purchase_fuzzies_and_utilons_sepa...

This is an efficient way of buying fuzzies, for a really cheap price, and it's important to buy fuzzies or you start to fade. If you want to buy utilons, find a maximally effective charity (this means you either check Givewell or pick your favorite existential risk reduction org) and donate more than $10. Do not confuse the two problems, and do not attempt to solve them both at the same time!

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Re:Jonathan's Card by YetAnotherAlias on Tuesday August 09, 2011 @08:36AM (#2863762)
Interesting links and comments. I did not want this discussion to morph too much in to an argument about economics and/or politics. That's why I glossed over them saying "I am aware of all the real world problems and constraints". patrickyeon captured my thoughts well with his comments below about how the system was selecting beneficiaries. That's the point I was trying to highlight.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by hugh3 on Monday August 08, 2011 @01:03PM (#2860723)
The good thing about random altruism, i.e. giving stuff to people regardless of whether they need it or not, is that it doesn't encourage welfare dependency.

When you give free stuff to "those in need", you have to be extremely careful not to just wind up changing the balance of incentives in a way that just encourages them to stay "in need". Otherwise you're harming them, not helping them.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by masterzora on Monday August 08, 2011 @06:01PM (#2861766)
At the same time, if a few people riding the system that way is the price you have to pay to help the people who truly need it, isn't it really worth it?
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Re:Jonathan's Card by Psyonic on Monday August 08, 2011 @04:57PM (#2861561)
I feel like random altruism makes us feel good while probably doing very little actual good. As the OP said, it's haves giving to haves.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by hugh3 on Monday August 08, 2011 @06:06PM (#2861779)
As a have, I'm cool with this.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by patrickyeon on Monday August 08, 2011 @05:17PM (#2861624)
I think what the grandfather post meant was that Jonathan's card is meant to be scanned from a cell phone. If things like this are restricted to people with a cell phone (or a facebook account, or an iphone app...), the system selects for beneficiaries who are already above a certain level of need.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by laurenkuhlman on Monday August 08, 2011 @12:18PM (#2860573)
Text MEALS to 90999 to give $5 to the Chicago Food Depository. I do it quite frequently when some joyous happenstance comes my way or when I spend a bit too much on myself.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by YetAnotherAlias on Tuesday August 09, 2011 @08:38AM (#2863763)
Good tip.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by js2 on Monday August 08, 2011 @09:16AM (#2859930)
There are so many little things you can do that can make someone else's day. Here's another one: cook a meal for any new parents you may happen to know. Nothing fancy, just something you can drop off that they can easily reheat and maybe lasts a couple days.
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Re:Jonathan's Card by iqster on Monday August 08, 2011 @02:51PM (#2861139)
Good karma!

Back in the days of pay phones, I had a friend who'd put quarters in the return slot. While it is a very small gesture, it moved me. Felt like sharing this.

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Re:Jonathan's Card by rakkhi on Monday August 08, 2011 @05:30AM (#2859378)
Great story. Will do the same going forward.
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