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Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by jabl on Saturday September 18, 2021 @03:35AM (#28574407)
It seems in Europe there is the general idea that with the USA waning as the sole superpower, and further with the USA more and more focused on great power competition with China [1] rather than partnering with Europe against the Soviet Union, Europe must take on more responsibility for its own defense. Including the capability to build top of the line high tech military gear like fighter jets.

Of course, the problem is how to convince European tax payers to part with the money necessary for this. Particularly as we already have two separate European projects to design next gen fighters, the UK-Italian-Swedish Tempest as well as the French-German-Spanish FCAS. Like herding cats.

I wonder what could be done to reduce the cost of developing a new top of the line fighter? More COTS components? A modular approach, which is certainly much more limited in scope in high-performance aircraft than e.g. in cars?

[1] As for China and Russia, interestingly it seems that China is poised to overtake Russia in combat aircraft development: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/whitehall...

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by ganzuul on Saturday September 18, 2021 @03:38AM (#28574423)
Don't be so eager to throw our tax money into this pit.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by jabl on Saturday September 18, 2021 @03:59AM (#28574494)
As an European taxpayer, I'm certainly concerned that resources are wasted. OTOH, Putin has time and again proved that he's a belligerent crook entirely willing to expand his territory any time his neighbors show weakness. Much as I wish it were different, Europe must be able to mount a credible defense, with or without the USA.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by toxik on Saturday September 18, 2021 @04:11AM (#28574541)
You are surely aware that France and the UK have nukes. That seems like a pretty strong deterrent.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by tblt on Saturday September 18, 2021 @04:55AM (#28574706)
Is it a given that France or the UK would deploy their nukes in response to, for example, Russian aggression on Europe’s eastern flank, say Estonia? If not, their use as a deterrence there is limited.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by hef19898 on Saturday September 18, 2021 @05:25AM (#28574831)
The risk I see is, that the EU and NATO isn't showing a hard line (might alternative be too late, so) to Putin. Then all it takes for him to try annexing the Baltic is the reasonable impression NATO isn't willing to go to full over that. In which case we would be screwed. The abandonment of Afghanistan certainly didn't help in projecting that kind of strength.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by ClumsyPilot on Saturday September 18, 2021 @04:32AM (#28574614)
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by baybal2 on Saturday September 18, 2021 @08:10AM (#28575580)
> You are surely aware that France and the UK have nukes.

Only few hundreds, of which much less are deployed, given Vanguard, and Triomphant frequent port calls.

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by DocTomoe on Saturday September 18, 2021 @05:11AM (#28574761)
As another European, I am in favor of aligning ourselves in a mutually beneficial economic exchange with Russia and China, which causes interdependence and a diminishing risk of military conflict.

Putin, repeatedly, has been shown to be a reliable, and predictable partner - something we cannot really claim about the US, and increasingly less so in recent years.

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by sgt101 on Saturday September 18, 2021 @05:49AM (#28574940)
I think everyone in Europe is keen on "mutually beneficial economic exchange with Russia and China" but I think that recent history demonstrates that Russia and China have different views from us about what mutually beneficial means.

>Putin, repeatedly, has been shown to be a reliable, and predictable partner

Oh come on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_bounty_program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Montenegrin_coup_d%27%C3%...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement#...

and many other gigs!

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by Bronze_Colossus on Saturday September 18, 2021 @05:31AM (#28574863)
Putin has not shown to be an reliable ally. The annexation of Crimea and the ongoing hybrid war in east Ukraine is one such example.

Putin does not want a strong independent ally next to Russia. He either wants puppet states such as Belarus as allies or a weak and fractured European union. For all the faults the US have they are still better allies than Russia by several lightyears.

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by publicola1990 on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:06PM (#28577246)
May be if granted a buffer zone of influence, Russia will be a reliable partner to Europe. To me it is Europe (and the US) that is picking ideological battlegrounds, and showing eagerness to start a new cold war.
Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by light_hue_1 on Sunday September 19, 2021 @03:42PM (#28587255)
Granted a buffer zone of influence?

Let me rephrase that for you from the perspective of someone who lived on Russia's doorstep for many years.

You mean to say "Maybe if we let Russia subjugate a lot more people and confine them into an evil exploitative system against their will".

That's the big difference between Europe's zone of influence and Russia's zone of influence. People want to be part of the EU (the greatest thing that ever happened to the country I was born in). People want to give their lives to not be part of Russia.

Re:6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan... by benhurmarcel on Saturday September 18, 2021 @05:23PM (#28579445)
Reducing military development costs has some solutions, but it’s difficult to apply in practice.

The most effective things you can do is to not force spreading the work across specific companies and countries, and not change the specs as the program goes.