News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by rootusrootus on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:06PM (#28532108)
> Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and it's freakin disastrous.

Which half?

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by slg on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:16PM (#28532820)
Some vaccination rates[1]:

Democrats: 88%

Republicans: 55%

Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62%

Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46%

Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91%

Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50%

Let's not "both sides" this issue. It should be obvious who is to blame for the US's less than stellar vaccination rates and it isn't well-intentioned but manipulative messaging coming from health officials.

[1] - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-pol...

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by caseysoftware on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:06PM (#28534779)
That's a poll.

If you use actual vaccination data, there are other patterns[0]:

White: 52%

Black: 43%

Hispanic: 48%

Asian: 68%

When you view all things through a political lens, you'll miss important details.

[0] - https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-... - as of 07 September

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by slg on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @01:37AM (#28535614)
My response is the same as to your sibling comment, what are you trying to say here?

This doesn't disprove my initial point. Remember that Black people and Hispanics only make up roughly 30% of the population. They can be vaccinated at much lower rates than whites and still by only a minority of the overall unvaccinated population. Looking at all these numbers together, who someone voted for in the last presidential election is a much stronger indicator of their vaccination status than their race.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by water8 on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @02:30AM (#28535906)
They cant be vaccinated at lower rates if they want a job according to biden
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by enkid on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:31PM (#28534934)
You can't just drop percentages without saying what they are. Those are not vaccination rates. Those are proportion of vaccination percentage to case percentage. What exactly are you trying to argue here?
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by caseysoftware on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @10:24AM (#28539409)
From the table:

"Percent of Total Population that has Received a COVID-19 Vaccine Dose by Race/Ethnicity, Selected States, September 7, 2021"

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by userbinator on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:43PM (#28533107)
Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46%

...and yet Trump himself is vaccinated. American politics is weird.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by qzw on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:38PM (#28533548)
… and got booed at his own rally when he encouraged people to get the vaccine. American politics is now a 100% tail-wagging-the-dog situation.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by gorwell on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:29PM (#28532957)
I don't think we should go down that road.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demogr...

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by slg on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:45PM (#28533122)
Can you explain what you think your link is showing? I honestly can't tell. First off there is this disclaimer:

>These demographic data represent the geographic areas that contributed data and might differ by populations prioritized within each jurisdiction’s vaccination phase. Therefore, these data may not be generalizable to the entire US population.

That page also shows the overall percentage of the population with at least one shot is 75.7% and yet no demographic group reaches that number except those over 50 years old. It seems clear that the CDC data is incomplete enough to not be fully trusted, but even if we do trust it, it doesn't do anything to disprove that the highest contributor to a person's vaccination status (besides potentially age) is their personal politics.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by dnissley on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:00PM (#28533242)
The page explains this with a small note: "Race/Ethnicity data were available for 64% receiving at least one dose and 69.1% of people fully vaccinated". So increasing the numbers by about 50% to account for that makes it look more reasonable.

Regardless, if we're nitpicking data quality surely a random nbc news poll doesn't exactly pass muster either.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by slg on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:16PM (#28533376)
The NBC News poll is designed to be representative of national numbers and the CDC page specifically calls out that it isn't designed to be representative of national numbers. Therefore the CDC numbers aren't necessarily more accurate just because the sample size is bigger.

And like I said, even if we take the CDC numbers as the objective truth, they do not contradict my original point.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by beerandt on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:55PM (#28533723)
It's meaningless, unadjusted percentages of separate populations.

Idk if it's supposed to mislead or confuse, or if they're just idiots at the CDC that don't understand statistics.

They shouldn't be comparing percentages of the 3 populations, which is misleading based on different subset sizes.

They should be saying what percentage of each demographic has been vaccinated, which is what they insinuate.

They give 9.9% total and 14.6% last 14 days representative proportions for Black, who are 12.4 % of the US population.

And 61.6% total and 47.9% 14-day for White, who are 61.2% of the US.

These seem fairly even, but really 9.9/12.4 gives only 80% of black proportional makeup.

While White is 61.6/61.2= 101%

And it makes no sense to compare the 14 day subset percentage against either other number.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by rednerrus on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:50PM (#28532584)
Where the horseshoe touches.
[dead]
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by ikrenji on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:26PM (#28532935)
the pandemic is not a philosophical problem, it has nothing to do with liberty or freedom. it is purely a scientific problem with a scientific solution - the fucking vaccine
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by SamPatt on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:34PM (#28533505)
Incredible claim.

Science is a process we employ to learn more about the world.

It is not a solution to all the world's ills. Science informs, then people make decisions on that information.

Denying that controversial decisions are being made by people which impact our freedoms and insisting that science prescribes any given policy at all - much less only a single one! - is the type of thinking which terrifies those on the sidelines.

You appear as a zealot.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by ikrenji on Thursday September 16, 2021 @05:50AM (#28549766)
why is it an incredible claim? there are only two diseases that mankind managed to clear out completely from earth ~ smallpox and polio. both were wiped out with a vaccine. dozens of other diseases are kept in check with vaccines. nothing incredible about it
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by jpadkins on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:50PM (#28533160)
just curious: Why are you so confident that the vaccine is the solution? There are countries or populations with very high rate of vaccination that still see community spread (Israel, that UK ship, etc).

Are you mentally prepared for the possibility that this is not true? What evidence would convince you that the vaccine won't 'solve' the pandemic?

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by nradov on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @09:56PM (#28534275)
Singapore has an 81% full vaccination rate but is still experiencing a rapid rise in symptomatic cases. I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but it's not a complete solution.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/seriously-ill-cov...

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by VintageCool on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:04PM (#28533282)
Israel only has a 61% fully vaccinated rate. It is having to deal with widespread vaccine skepticism just like the US.

Since the Delta variant is so much more infectious than the original covid, you'd have to get to 90% vaccination rates to count as "herd immunity" against this disease.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by sreque on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:20PM (#28533419)
Your numbers are misleading and deceptive. 78% of the eligible population and 90% of the most vulnerable have been vaccinated in Israel. Children under 12, who are ineligible for the vaccine, are at insanely low risk from covid and at insanely low risk of spreading it. Pretending they have to be vaccinated to achieve "herd immunity" is a lie and is fear mongering. Data show that unvaccinated children are safer than vaccinated adults.

COVID will become endemic. Everyone knows this. All that's left is for politicians to vilify political opponents for potential votes and try to consolidate more power in the meantime.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by monetus on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:58PM (#28533758)
It will be endemic longer the more people (i.e. you) imply that there is nothing to be done. Edit: I don't mean to say that is what you meant, I just mean to say that the spread can be contained and the virus can be pushed out of whole regions before new variants arrive. It appears like you are saying that is impossible or not worth trying to attain.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by nradov on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @09:59PM (#28534302)
Unfortunately that's simply wrong. There's no scientific basis for claiming that the virus can be pushed out of whole regions. It's impossible. Or at least no one has proposed a plausible plan.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by ikrenji on Thursday September 16, 2021 @05:53AM (#28549779)
its not only possible but it already happened twice ~ with smallpox and polio.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by nradov on Thursday September 16, 2021 @10:28AM (#28552270)
It is not possible to eradicate SARS-CoV-2. We eradicated smallpox and (almost) polio because we had highly sterilizing vaccines and no animal hosts. That situation doesn't obtain with SARS-CoV-2. Vaccines are highly effective at preventing deaths and I do encourage vaccination, but vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus. They are probably less contagious on average, but unfortunately that isn't enough to control community spread.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03944-y

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by ikrenji on Thursday September 16, 2021 @11:15AM (#28552867)
there is a too many unknowns for anyone to be able to say its not possible to eradicate covid. whats known for sure is that ~40% vaccination rates would have not been able to eradicate either smallpox or polio...
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by jpadkins on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @10:26AM (#28539450)
That is true. But would you also agree that it will be endemic longer if we put false hope in solutions that aren't going to fully work? We need to be honest with ourselves, and be open ideas like therapeutics or UV lights in public spaces or other new ideas to reduce the spread of the virus.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by SailingSperm on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:17PM (#28534842)
Science has proven you can very effectively stop the spread of a virus or other pathogen in livestock by culling the herd/flock.

Should we follow that science with ourselves? Or maybe is there ethical and philosophical ponderances left there?

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by Ekaros on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @05:51AM (#28537155)
Wouldn't the scientific solution be total lock down with martial law and anyone not absolutely needed outside being shot on spot. And keep those measures in place for a few months just to be sure?
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by ikrenji on Thursday September 16, 2021 @05:53AM (#28549776)
no. you can't equate getting jabbed and getting shot and conclude that science is evil :D
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by wavefunction on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:03PM (#28532697)
The problem is that we tried to allow people to be "personally responsible" and we ended up with a worse wave of the pandemic than the original one. People were not responsible, and they were definitely not "personally responsible" seeing how they've tied up our medical system, burnt out medical workers and kept people with normal medical emergencies or conditions from getting the care they require. Liberty is freedom+responsibility. All I hear about is freedom without responsibility though.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by syshum on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @07:19AM (#28537689)
So your rebuttable is "we gave you a choice, and you choose wrong"

That is not really a choice. Does the mugger give me a "choice" when he holds a gun to my head and threatens me with violence if do not do as he desire.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by a_conservative on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @09:42AM (#28538916)
It depends on who you ask! If you ask the mugger, he will likely say that you did have a choice.