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Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by pfortuny on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:43AM (#28526499)
"Using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits"

That statement cannot be false because it is devoid of any content, being a mere hypothetical. The fact that it is surrounded by "research" is meaningless as well, as the aforementioned sentence is like saying "the elements of the empty set fulfil all properties"...

So no, they are not contradicting themselves. They are simply and wantonly misleading people.

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by Frost1x on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @12:44PM (#28527387)
Most corporate PR statements are crafted this way. They often give the illusion of saying something because all the key words of saying something are there, but they're often crafted in a way that if read carefully, say almost nothing at all or have a giant disclaimer in small font that essentially says *none of this maybe true and is subject to change.

A lot of pharmaceutical advertisements do this to: this might help you, it might also kill you, you choose(!) but please ask your doctor about us anyways and throw us some money.

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by rlayton2 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:23PM (#28534882)
I love looking at pharmaceutical advertising in this way - what they do say is the absolute legally maximum they could say about the product. If there were stronger claims, they could make them.

Therefore, if they say "may help against X", then it doesn't really, because if they had substantial evidence of that, they would state that.

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by jdavis703 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @10:33PM (#28534540)
But in the case of pharmaceuticals there is at least rigorous scientific evidence behind the statements. Even so, science does not have all the answers, and to pretend so would be making a mockery of the scientific method.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by treis on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @12:36PM (#28527264)
The research the GP's quote is referencing said Instagram made 41% feel better, 31% worse, and no impact for the other 28%. It's not clear why that can be used as evidence that it makes some girls feel worse about themselves but that it makes some girls feel better about themselves.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by popcorncowboy on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @02:58PM (#28529316)
I've come up with a new sports drink. X% of people say it makes them feel good! WOOO! Y% don't feel anything. About one in Z people will absolutely feel worse. If you have suicidal thoughts, about one in ten of those will be able to attribute their suicidal thinking to my drink. When interviewed about my drink, teenagers will unprompted blame the drink on increasing rates of anxiety and and depression. If you feel unattractive, odds are about even you started feeling that way when you started drinking my drink. Teens regularly report wanting to drink less of my drink but lack the self control to do so. In part this is because they report feeling like they have to be seen drinking my drink. I know all this because I employ researchers who say they can't get people in my sports drink company to take their findings seriously because those researchers are "standing directly between people and their bonuses". So my execs don't use our internal research, but cite instead other studies (by orgs that I donate to) that highlight the positives.

I make $BILLIONS from this drink.

(fill in whatever value of X, Y and Z makes this all ok)

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by Aerroon on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @10:08PM (#28534376)
Alcohol is not a sports drink.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by stickfigure on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:34PM (#28528034)
Probably any social activity is similar. I'm willing to bet the statistics for "high school prom" are much worse. And then there's Cosmo and Vogue...
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by pempem on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:58PM (#28531981)
Your note that the world is sexist and many things make women, teens and girls continously negatively evaluate themselves is something I agree.

The rest I would truly contest.

Prom is not an every single morning, universe commenting event no matter how the teenage brain may attempt to blow it up.

Cosmo and Vogue do not have the same continuous feedback loop and clearly have 100x (1000x? 1mnx?) less content being created, repeated, refreshed, etc. Its a magazine. If you want to invoke their IG handles honestly I could find 100s of influencers with more reach and engagement

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by vagrantJin on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:47PM (#28532553)
> Your note that the world is sexist and many things make women, teens and girls continously negatively evaluate themselves

How did you pull this from a rather benign statement about high school prom and magazines?

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by raxxorrax on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @04:59AM (#28536822)
I think in contemporary culture and media in western nations sexism is vastly exaggerated. At least if you use the classical definition. Someone who is sexist rarely burdens people with expectations since those are by definition quite low.

I believe other social phenomena are responsible for this, mainly forms of peer pressur. The stories influencers use to lure their audiences often invokes the threat of sexism and that naturally increases fears that might lead to a feedback loop.

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by staplers on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:10PM (#28532149)
Without data, these are biased assumptions.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by jxramos on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:56AM (#28526698)
wow this is fascinating, taking the veneer of something in the tautological space and using it as sheep's clothing over something known to be a wolf. There's something curious about this form of misleading that deserves to be identified and named to be called out in future instances.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by dweekly on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @12:07PM (#28526850)
"Foods containing sugar have been found to save lives in a number of studies."

"Regular smoking use is associated with lower BMI, which is shown to correlate with improved heart health and lower mortality rates."

"Use of fossil fuels powers a number of ecology-preserving tasks, allowing us to care for the environment in a way we could not without this amazing source of Earth-loving fuel."

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by gerry_shaw on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @12:24PM (#28527107)
You are far too good at crafting these passages.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by dgs_sgd on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:40PM (#28528102)
It's fairly easy if you understand the meaning of "can be true". There can be countless instances where it's not true but if you find just _one_ instance where it's true, then your "can be true" statement must be true.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by pmarreck on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:02PM (#28527632)
Love it.

It still needs a name. Here let me try:

Disproportionate benefit insinuation error: Implying (without explicitly stating that it has more benefits than disadvantages because that would be a disprovable lie) that because something has some benefit, it is overall helpful.

Or just "plausible deniability"- factually stating the existence of a beneficial tree, but omitting mention of the harmful forest

Or just "cherry-picking"

Or to cover cases where a harm is insinuated/emphasized in the same way in order to discredit something (see: literally all the antivax data, antiscience, antimedicine... "trust doctors, you mean like the ones who prescribed thalidomide?")... "Misrepresenting the forest"

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by jxramos on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @03:12PM (#28529552)
maybe a good contraction would be a disbeni
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by javajosh on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:14PM (#28527784)
It has a name, its called "sophistry", and the practitioners "sophists". [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by jahnu on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:18PM (#28527835)
Nice short episode on them here for those who are interested

https://historyofphilosophy.net/sophists

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by rwnspace on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @05:03AM (#28536851)
Gorgias was perhaps the most well-known ancient Sophist, and is also the namesake of one of Plato's Dialogues, which happens to be one of my favourites. Highly recommend reading the above, and into sophistry and rhetoric more generally, if you're the sort that gets annoyed by modern bullshit, and wants a set of names and tactics to defend the sanctity (and sanity) of your opinions.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by Socketier on Thursday September 16, 2021 @12:20AM (#28547971)
Once you notice the "Weasel words" [1] you'll never see a press release like this one the same way again.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by mensetmanusman on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @04:59PM (#28531088)
This is called creating a narrative by cherry picking facts. This is what the media does, and is why so many people (most Americans per Pew) distrust them.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by hundreddaysoff on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:04PM (#28532707)
Disingenuous non sequitur?
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by TeeMassive on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:47PM (#28533142)
Yes. When he goes to those hearings, Zuckerberg fixes a spot and begins all of his answers with "[pause] Senator... [pause] [Generic reassuring statement] <very clever and deceptive answer>. (https://youtu.be/XXuk-WSDDRw?t=111)

There's a conspiracy theory stating that he's wearing AR contact lenses such as those (https://www.wired.com/story/mojo-vision-smart-contact-lens/) and we know he's been working on this since 2017 (https://www.dezeen.com/2017/04/20/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-e...).

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by dgs_sgd on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:38PM (#28528077)
It's a true statement. Surely connecting via social apps has had positive mental health benefits on at least one person. That alone would make it true.

I think the problem is most people probably read the statement and don't realize just how weak the evidence required to make it true is.

Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by zo1 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @01:50PM (#28528234)
I would interpret it as "connecting via social apps has a greater than absolute 0 probability of giving positive mental health benefits".
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by dgs_sgd on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @02:06PM (#28528462)
Then I think we're in agreement? "Connecting via social apps has a non-0 probability of giving (to whom? at least one person?) positive mental health benefits".
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by TedShiller on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:51PM (#28533687)
Exactly. If one person in the world benefits from using Instagram and the other 7 billion people get depressed, then the statement FB made is still true.
Re:Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company... by zo1 on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @05:20AM (#28536968)
I am agreeing with you. Just mentioning how I frame/see it in my head.