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Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by dfdx on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @06:23PM (#28463789)
Anecdotally, ITER was the largest of few options for a fusion researcher to run their experiment in a new tokamak. Everybody wanted to put their work into it, and as more features were added, the more funding it sucked up, leaving less money for other experiments, leading to more people wanting to put their experiment into ITER. Here's a presentation [0] that goes over why SPARC, being so much smaller and simpler than ITER could be more likely to succeed.

[0] https://library.psfc.mit.edu/catalog/online_pubs/iap/iap2016...

This quote from the presentation summarizes it well:

“The more money that's involved, the less risk people want to take. The less risk people want to take, the more they put into their designs, to make sure their subsystem is super-reliable. The more things they put in, the more expensive the project gets. The more expensive it gets, the more instruments the scientists want to add, because the cost is getting so high that they're afraid there won't be another opportunity later on- they figure this is the last train out of town. So little by little, the spacecraft becomes gilded. And you have these bad dreams about a spacecraft so bulky and so heavy it won't get off the ground- never mind the overblown cost.”

“That boils down to the higher the cost, the more you want to protect your investment, so the more money you put into lowering your risk. It becomes a vicious cycle.” - Rob Manning, Chief spacecraft engineer, JPL

Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by fragmede on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @08:04PM (#28464580)
SPARC (as proposed this year, by CFS, which was founded in 2018) also has the benefit of 3 decades worth of advancement in materials science, computers, and other technologies over ITER, which was started sometime in the 1980's. Sometimes being first to market takes a long time and is very expensive because you first have to invent all of the components yourself.

SpaceX's advancement is impressive, but if NASA had never happened, I doubt SpaceX would even exist today.

Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by maccam94 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:59PM (#28465354)
SpaceX's main innovation was that they decided to build a rocket that wasn't optimized for performance or reliability, but cost. They were willing to bear huge development risks to create a new price category and capture latent demand for cheaper launches.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by zarzavat on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:36PM (#28465583)
I'd say what SpaceX optimises for most is iteration time. They have benefited hugely from an iterative development pattern contrasted to the waterfall pattern of NASA et al. Time is your biggest cost.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by tcmart14 on Thursday September 09, 2021 @12:58AM (#28466393)
I'd say yes and no. You most definitely have a point here as I agree that their model, or view, is different than NASA. However, if NASA had not happened, would even conceiving of a different model or target had happened? Not to mention just initial research into rocketry. It maybe could have happened without NASA, but probably with a severely higher initial investment.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by aaronblohowiak on Thursday September 09, 2021 @02:03AM (#28466792)
The soviets had a very strong space program and arguably their rocket designs have had a significant impact on spacex…
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by tcmart14 on Friday September 10, 2021 @01:05AM (#28477989)
I should have included them also. It is very much a "standing on giants." As many scientists and engineers from different countries and nationalities have made major contributions. I believe it was an early soviet scientist in the 20s who came up with the formula for how much fuel needed to be loaded into a rocket.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by Symmetry on Thursday September 09, 2021 @10:54AM (#28470367)
Super Heavy does look a lot more like an N1 than a Saturn V, after all.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by Gravityloss on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @07:02PM (#28464142)
For NASA science probes, this cost increase and risk averseness spiraling is called when missions become "Battlestar Galactica".
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by ksec on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @08:27PM (#28464732)
I thought this was some joke involving Bears and Beets. Turns out it is an actual thing [1].

>In 1992, Dan Goldin became the NASA Administrator. Goldin believed in a philosophy of Faster… better… cheaper—i.e., he thought NASA could do more with less. Hence, Goldin did not support the idea of having large EOS platforms in space and in fact once referred to them as “Battlestar Galactica.” He believed smaller, less expensive missions that could be built more quickly were the way to go and supported development of new programs that actually diverted funds from EOS.

[1] https://eospso.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/eo_pdfs/Perspect...

Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @08:36PM (#28464799)
Arguably the Shuttle suffered from this too— instead of being a tightly focused space truck, it needed to be able to do ridiculous things like fly polar missions and grab Soviet spy satellites right out of the air.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by mauvehaus on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:56PM (#28465337)
Point of order: if the space shuttle were grabbing satellites out of the air, something has gone terribly wrong with both launching the satellite and the shuttle.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:12PM (#28465442)
I think the idea was that early spy satellites would use film rather than digital transmission, so it would be at the very least necessary to potentially grab one's own satellites.

In any case, this exact question was asked here, and the top-rated response indicates that it's unlikely that the design requirement was ever meant to refer to grabbing an uncooperative payload:

https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/41741/was-the-spac...

Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by neltnerb on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:31PM (#28465884)
I think the joke was that the satellite isn't supposed to be in the "air".
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by influx on Thursday September 09, 2021 @02:14AM (#28466852)
Parent was being overly pedantic in that satellites were likely to be grabbed out of space and not air.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by maccam94 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @06:41PM (#28463957)
This is also why it's exciting to see the huge drop in satellite launch costs driven by SpaceX. Your satellite design is going to be much different if you have a few chances to launch on a $1B rocket per year, vs launching it for $10M anytime. Rather than one complicated reliable one, you might make 10 simpler ones and buy extra flights to do repairs if necessary.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by stainforth on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @08:16PM (#28464649)
The first step to correction is awareness right? Lets turn this tanker of human behavior away from these pitfalls.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by notJim on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @07:48PM (#28464463)
This is an amazing observation, and something I've seen in many realms.
Re:MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion... by ksec on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @08:14PM (#28464637)
Sounds like politics more than technological. Although I guess it is unavoidable.