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Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by jjeaff on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:54AM (#28458897)
What are the reasons not to get a vaccine? I haven't seen any real data that indicated that.
Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by godshatter on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @03:19PM (#28461793)
I'm fully vaccinated, but that was a choice I made. It was a risk assessment. "How likely am I to get covid and have a bad go of it?" vs "How likely am I to have a bad reaction from the vaccine?" That's a risk assessment that varies from person to person based on where they live, what medical conditions they might have, their age, and other things.

The mRNA vaccines are especially worrisome to some because they are relatively new and aren't fully approved in the US (where I live).

I have a co-morbidity and by the time I was eligible to get vaccinated it looked obvious to me that I'd be better off getting it based on how well they were performing and how low the risk appeared. Things could have turned out wildly different with vaccines that turned out to be both mostly ineffective and potentially dangerous, causing me to assess things differently.

I encourage my friends who aren't vaccinated to get jabbed, but I have no wish to have the government force them to get a medical procedure they specifically don't want.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:10PM (#28459165)
Waiting to see the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine?

Natural immunity as I mentioned before.

Religious reasons.

Just because. You don't need a reason, it's your body.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by JohnFen on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:24PM (#28459377)
> You don't need a reason, it's your body.

The reason is to help protect and care for your fellow human beings.

"It's your body" only counts if what you're doing with it isn't putting unconsenting others at risk. Forgoing the vaccine without a solid medical reason is putting others at risk.

By your logic, you should be able to punch anyone in the face at any time, because your fist is part of your body, and "it's your body".

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:29PM (#28459438)
> "It's your body" only counts if what you're doing with it isn't putting unconsenting others at risk.

Not according to pro-abortion stances.

If you want to get the vaccine, it should protect you. If you can't there are therapeutics. You don't need to force others to inject mRNA shots into them.

Your analogy was awful. Such a false equivalency, there's nothing even remotely the same about that example.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by JohnFen on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:45PM (#28459655)
What's wrong with my analogy?

The point of vaccines is to help protect society at large, not so much you specifically. Failing to take reasonable steps that help keep your friends and neighbors safe is simply reprehensible.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by recursive on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:21PM (#28459322)
I don't understand "natural immunity" as a reason. I think I don't know what it actually means.

As far as I know, natural immunity is conferred if and only if you've recovered from the virus. And one of the goals of the vaccine is to avoid getting it in the first place. But to get natural immunity, you have to be infected first. It seems a bit like burning down your house to prevent arson from a stranger. Have I misunderstood "natural immunity"?

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:25PM (#28459396)
Likewise, yelling at people to get the vaccine makes no sense.

If you don't want to catch the virus, get the vaccine. Don't worry about others.

They will get the virus and then get natural immunity. People will have adverse reactions to both covid and the vaccine. Let them weigh the risk to which one.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by recursive on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @04:01PM (#28462307)
Thanks for the advice, but that's already exactly what I'm doing.

One downside of this though, is that ICU beds are full. I'll also hope I don't need one. I very rarely have before, so I'll probably be ok.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by kristjansson on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @04:53PM (#28462921)
> They will get the virus and then get natural immunity

Only if they, y'know, survive, and only after being a nuisance to the healthcare system that the rest of rely on

You've got a point that verifiable natural immunity as of _now_ should probably be acceptable in lieu of vaccination (though efficacy against variants is worth considering) for mandates.

Offering 'natural immunity' as an option to the currently un-vaccinated un-infected population is just crazy. People will assume the risk, get sick, got to hospital, and die. Just ignoring those 'others' isn't an option for public-health since the downside costs of the risk they assume are borne by everyone in the form of healthcare burden. 'They' still expect to be a priority when they get sick...

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by duxup on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:34AM (#28458615)
>Thinking that you need everyone to get a vaccine to live a normal life is a strange bar.

I don't understand what that means.

What happened to thinking of other people?

When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life. It doesn't change my life at all, outside of added immunity.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:58AM (#28458961)
> When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life

That's exactly my point. You aren't thinking, you're just following.

> What happened to thinking of other people?

My point as well. It's the same "think of the children" argument that was being discussed above.

That itself is not a reason. People have immunity. The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by duxup on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:15PM (#28459244)
What does any of that mean?

You're talking about "aren't thinking" but most of your posts just involve nebulous throw away phrases like "People have immunity"... clearly you know that phrase doesn't mean anything right?

In the meantime we can all see for ourselves actual impact, real things, in areas where vaccination rates are low. These aren't nebulous concepts like your phrases, they're real.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:34PM (#28459508)
Real things? Please point to the real things.

Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!!

Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine.

Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual.

Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by jazzyjackson on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:24PM (#28460249)
:/

just because rural folks don’t care the hospital is full doesn’t mean the hospital isn’t full

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:25PM (#28460272)
Not at all what I said. The hospital isn't full. Show me a single hospital that is OVER or AT capacity.

All the fear mongering articles say is the ICU is at 90%~

They are always around that number. Show me the percentage of covid patients in that ICU. Show me the normal number of the ICU.

Worry about obesity if you want to stop the number one and two killers of humans and relieve our healthcare system.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by KittenInABox on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:36PM (#28460421)
Can you just go to r/nursing and read the 100x stories of nurses saying "I'm actually not an ICU nurse but my floor has been converted to an ICU floor" or "We have 4 nurses for 30 covid patients and I want to scream"?
Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:39PM (#28460461)
Anecdotes on Reddit. Great source.

Don't believe anything you read on Reddit, especially anecdotes.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by KittenInABox on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:40PM (#28460486)
Maybe go to your local hospital and ask then among their own nursing social circles? They're the people who would have first-hand understanding of how full the ICUs are.

I'm not saying I believe everything I read on Reddit, but I know r/nursing is a longtime subreddit of mostly medical people and has a history of being as such for a long time. If I wanted to know what the actual medical field is dealing with day to day, I think a community with a history of being where healthcare people talk about what they're dealing with day to day is a pretty good bet.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:44PM (#28460553)
I have been to the hospital 3 times already and it's fine. My sister is a nurse and she hasn't had a covid patient in over a month.

I guess Reddit only gets one type of anecdote. I doubt the other side gets voted up and probably even removed.

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by duxup on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:27PM (#28460291)
Are you saying "Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!!" isn't real?
Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by zucked on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:40PM (#28459576)
> The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium.

How are you quantifying that? The original intent of flattening the curve was to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system and here we are... overwhelming the healthcare system(s) again. A quick check of capacity of ICU beds in the SE USA shows that on average, hospitals are running 92% capacity(1). Obviously you want right-sized ICU capacity, but I doubt 92% is a comfortable margin.

(1)https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-...

Re:20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes o... by hunterb123 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:51PM (#28459725)
You would need to know the normal margin and the % that covid patients are taking for that to be significant.