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Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by hilbert42 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @10:26PM (#28399773)
I'm in the thick of this lockdown and frankly I'm damn sick of people from one of the most dysfunctional counties on the planet trying to dictate what we do! Sure, we've fucked up many things and day-by-day we're getting better and better at fucking them up, nevertheless we're still eons behind the dizzying heights you Americans have reached.

Unlike many Americans, most Australians would prefer to yield to principle than to suicide over it. The pathological notion that your country has for so-called freedoms (which never really existed anyway) is something the world watches with aghast amazement—right, you don't see it as you're in the thick of it but the rest of the world does (the fact that we also speak a form of English is now a source of an embarrassment to us). (And it's now even worse since the Afghanistan fiasco—sorry I mean the Vietnam repeat exercise.)

Let's get a few facts straight: clearly you—along with many of your fellow countrymen—haven't a clue about what happened during earlier pandemics in the US. Right, you're clueless about your own US history in respect of previous pandemics or you'd be much more circumspect in your criticism of others. I would strongly suggest that you examine the rules, laws and regulations that were in place in the US during the 1918-20 Spanish Flu pandemic and you'll find that some of them would put anything we've done over here to shame! Go on—do a search, then read and learn!

Let me continue: I'd also suggest that you Americans had absolutely no qualms about quarantining Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary) for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon. Her life must have been hell because of her forced incarceration. Your antiquated health system had no proper way of managing her so you just locked her up then let her rot until she died!

And more, let me quote "Quarantined for Life: The Tragic History of US Leprosy Colonies - Stripped of their most basic human rights, patients nonetheless built lives and communities": https://www.history.com/news/leprosy-colonies-us-quarantine. I've nothing to add as the story speaks for itself.

There's much more but I've proved my point.

Now to the local facts here. The fact that we were not strict enough in policing the disease is the reason that it got away from us. That we let international people in and some damn taxi driver idiot drove an infected aircrew to a hotel without protection started it all. If we'd implemented the strict quarantine measures that we had had in place in 1918-19 for the Spanish Flu then it would not have escaped anywhere near as easily.

"Most of the rest of the Western world is looking on in horror. Even writers at The Atlantic."

Oh yeah, if most of the rest of the world is looking at us then it's turned away from looking at you out of horror, we're comic relief by comparison.

Next factoid: the per capita death rate in the US leapfrogs over ours here in Australia by at least an order of magnitude. Why? Because millions of bloody-mined Americans won't wear masks or get vaccinated out of principle (lunacy). Right, they'd prefer to suffer COVID and likely die rather than to admit they're wrong—very grossly wrong (frankly it's sickening to watch it playing out like a tragic soap opera on our TVs every day—all this from the so-called leader of the free world). Even your president says 'it's now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.'

No wonder the Chinese are gloating and laughing themselves sick. If the whole horrible shemozzle weren't so utterly tragic then one would reckon we were watching an episode of the Keystone Cops.

Next time, do your research, get your facts right (I know that's a damned hard ask given that in the US the word 'fact' has come to mean anything or utterance that its utterer thinks it ought to be).

P.S. Keep the downvotes coming, they're further verifying my points!

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by iammisc on Friday September 03, 2021 @02:25AM (#28401029)
You're getting down voted because more and more of the us is back to normal and is not experiencing these terrible outcomes. Kids are back in school. People back in offices. Clubs open, bars open, parties, etc. You come across as someone who feels themselves morally superior because they are living in a state of lockdown.

Like a holy ascetic hermit mocking the commoners.

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by tadfisher on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:34AM (#28401405)
I live in a blue state, and hospitals are currently setting up tents in parking lots to make room for more COVID patients. ECMO and ventilator capacity is at 100%. This state is far from the top of the list in infection rate.

Things are not going back to normal, no matter how much we act like they are.

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by hilbert42 on Monday September 06, 2021 @12:31PM (#28435364)
Exactly, thanks.

(I'm sorry I never studied psychology. I've always wanted to know why some people can state categorically that black is white or vise versa when the overwhelming evidence is to the contrary.) :-)

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by iammisc on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:42PM (#28410667)
Things always go back to normal no matter how many doom preachers there are.
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by hilbert42 on Monday September 06, 2021 @11:58AM (#28434976)
"<...>someone who feels themselves morally superior because they are living in a state of lockdown."

That's actually not correct. I don't expect you to believe it but you'd be able to ascertain that's it's incorrect if you read some of my earlier posts on the subject.

Several points, as I've said previously, I rather like lockdowns as they allow me time to do things that I've not time for otherwise - or time that I wouldn't normally be able to justify. Check for yourself (it's there in writing).

My main point is that I've precious little time for bloody-minded fools who: (a) deny science - that's to say the best advice available, (b) clearly haven't studied the facts - not even superficially so, (c) are acting in ways contrary to their own health and best interests and (d) their lack of concern for the health of others who do actually care. People who are knowingly prepared to infect others who may die as a consequence are a dangerous menace to society and throughout history we've locked them up - as I've mentioned Mary Mallon is a case in point (the tragedy of that case was how she was treated after she was locked up).

Throughout history - even going back to the Black Death/plague and before, people were expected to follow protocols - locked up in their houses etc. This is not a new requirement. So what gives the right of stupid people to do so now? None I'd suggest.

BTW, in response to the ludicrous, inaccurate and often dangerous memes circulating on Social Media and elsewhere, a colleague of mine coined the phrase "We've reached peak stupid". Not only do I concur but I'm sorry I didn't think of that myself. It says it all really.

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by nhinck on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:22AM (#28401687)
It really doesn't seem like you're getting back to normal so much as ignoring excess deaths and being fine with it.
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by nickthemagicman on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:24AM (#28402053)
Under 20% of the population is in a high vulnerable group to Covid.

Quarantine is voluntary. If you choose to leave it, you face the consequences.

This is a personal responsibility problem not a society wide problem.

Simple as.

Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by lovich on Friday September 03, 2021 @11:05AM (#28405168)
I can’t imagine thinking that 20% of the population of my society is highly likely to die and then consider it a personal responsibility problem
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by nickthemagicman on Friday September 03, 2021 @02:59PM (#28407984)
People literally sacrificed themselves in numerous wars to give the rest of us exactly these abstract concepts of freedom and self determination.
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by lovich on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:31PM (#28411003)
20% of the population? Or is that hyperbole?
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by iammisc on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:43PM (#28410671)
Which is normal... Thousands die each day and we are fine with it... Because that's normal.
Re:How long can a democracy maintain emergency limits and st... by scohesc on Friday September 03, 2021 @10:22AM (#28404585)
The Chinese are laughing because Australia has become more like China in terms of surveillance and monitoring in the past decade.