Most people do not "deserve" bed space because most sickness is selfmade. People smoke, drink and eat too much, so they all deserve to die?

You overeating doesn't give everyone else around you diabetes.

I'm never going to buy the attempts to equate getting a personal preventable illness with willful and malicious disregard of the health of everyone surrounding you.

We're pretty understanding of a person who struggles with alcoholism. We're a whole lot less understanding when they choose to get behind the wheel.

Healthcare is a limited resource. People who overeat, drinking or otherwise contribute to their health problems sure as hell do take up healthcare resources from everyone else.

Riding a motorbike? Does nothing for anyone that cannot be done in a safer way but kills people and sometimes others.

Drinking alcohol?

I think making fun of someone dying is way too harsh.

All that being said I think vaccine certificates should be introduced with some ways of testing out for people that cannot take the vaccine.

Its culturally acceptable to shame drunk drivers, smokers (in public spaces), and more. Im not necessarily agreeing we should but it certainly follows that shaming people for endangering others re: vaccines is in line with modern cultural norms.

> You overeating doesn't give everyone else around you diabetes.

This seems like a deflection. Given GP's argument, a better question would be are obese people more likely to spread COVID than non-obese people?

Well, we know someone who has contracted COVID can expect worse outcomes if they're obese.

Given that, it seems safe to assume that obese people are more likely to get breakthrough infections and/or that they have slower recoveries (i.e. more coughing/sneezing and more spreading COVID) than non-obese people.

So it seems reasonable (in a back-of-the-envelope sort of way) to infer that obese folks are more likely to spread COVID than non-obese folks.

Now, back to GP's argument--If we're suggesting that non-vaccinated people are less deserving of healthcare than vaccinated people because they're contributing the the spread of COVID, why wouldn't we treat obese folks the same?

The covid vaccines do not prevent transmission, and people who are unvaccinated are not intentionally infecting others with covid. Taking the vaccine is also not the same as not driving sober because there are real fatal risks to taking the vaccine. Also, the main risk of death from covid is for people that do have preventable personal illnesses, or serious health issues. The average person dying from covid in the US has 4 comorbidity and only 5% of deaths do not have comorbidity [0].

So, tell me, why should a healthy, young person, who already had covid and went through it no problem, take a vaccine that could literally kill them? Because vaccine passports as introduced in some places will majorly mess up the lives of many people.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Co...

The context is different when there are issues with hospital capacity and there is a known solution that costs nothing to prevent hospitals’ from being overburdened.

The context is the same in regards to the self afflicted conditions he mentioned

The context is not the same since those conditions are not causing hospitals to surpass capacity in the short term.

Quitting smoking and losing weight are incredibly difficult and take years. Getting a jab takes five minutes and no effort whatsoever. You even get paid to do it at some places.

Habitual lifestyle factors are not the same as the exogenous novel coronavirus.

There is nothing habitual about stuffing food down your throat to the point of obesity.

I’m not going to quote the dictionary for you, but that’s indisputably false.

I do at least! But.. no one will kill me :(

Let me know if you need someone to talk with. Contact info is in profile

In smoking, drinking, eating too much, there are pleasures. Thus, making it difficult for people to stop. Stopping them requires fighting real urges. That's why they deserve sympathy.

In not getting vaccinated there's no pleasure. Only stupidity and ignorance.

I'm not sure what your argument is? That pleasure is what determines if something is ok to do? People have reasons for not taking a vaccine the same way people have reasons for drinking. They have their own reasons, it is their choice.

Comment above me claimed we should have sympathy for unvvacinated people [that have access to vaccine] who die, just like we do sympathize with people who die due to smoking, drinking, etc.

I argued that being vaccinated is not comparable to those, because unlike them, your body doesn't have any urge to not vaccinated. It's very easy to get vaccinated. It's just a stupid decision.

Not getting vaccinated is a stupid decision, but smoking is not? Or you think people are spontaneously addicted to smoking, drinking, drugs? Or you think that people randomly decide to not get the vaccine because they just wake up stupid one day? Guess what, in a free society people can choose what they put in their bodies, regardless of how much pleasure you think they get from it, or how stupid you think it is.

Totalt agree, I personally took up valuable hospital space after a biking accident.

I feel not taking the vaccine is a bit different but cannot really express this in an objective way so I guess it is not.

> They should be shamed.

On an emotional level, I can't help but agree. But.. frequently we have to choose between doing what feels good and doing what is effective. Assuming, of course, that we even notice when there is a difference between the two (which, frankly, there very often is).