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Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by desertraven on Sunday August 29, 2021 @10:47PM (#28352383)
I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam).

I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by lostcolony on Monday August 30, 2021 @01:31AM (#28353028)
Not at all true. For that to work, there would have to be, yes, eye tracking and a lot of image processing to change where your gaze appeared to be, but also knowledge of the physical size of the screen, the location of that particular person's feed on the screen, and where the screen is in relation to the camera. Now, it's possible that a lot of that could be inferred if it's assumed the screen is not moved in relation to the camera, and a lot of work went into tracking window locations even as you move things around, but that's a LOT of effort to expend for such a minor feature (let alone the uncanny valley effect if you don't get the image processing perfect, including the transitional "eye moved from the document you were looking at, to looking at them" - the software would have to somehow note that rather than just looking over an inch, you actually looked up 7 inches, and render that realistically).

Easiest way to confirm this is not true, though (rather than just describe the challenge involved) - have a Zoom/Teams/whatever call 1-on-1. As you're talking to the person, and they're talking back to you, note where their eyes are. 95% of the time they're going to be below where your eyes would "meet", i.e., the camera is at the top of their monitor/laptop, and they're looking at you on screen. In fact, I've had some people -never- 'meet' my gaze, because they never become self-aware enough to "oh, I should look at my camera when I am talking".

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by vladvasiliu on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:32AM (#28353249)
> In fact, I've had some people -never- 'meet' my gaze, because they never become self-aware enough to "oh, I should look at my camera when I am talking".

I'm not sure that looking into the camera is that important in a one-to-one setting. I'm specifically not talking about a "broadcast", like when you address an assembly and the communication is expected to go both ways.

To me, the reason why we look at a person when talking together is to see their reactions, and for them to see ours. Even in real life, and in particular when we speak, we don't look at the other person's eyes 100% of the time.

So in the case of video chat, where the "eyes" (the camera) is completely separate from the face, looking into the eyes cuts you off from their reaction, as you'll only see it in your peripheral vision. However, even if you see their eyes never meet yours, you're able to infer whether they're looking at your video or reading something else. And the most important part, their reactions, is still there.

To me, the whole point of video chat, as opposed to a phone call, is to have this additional channel of communication. If you're not looking at the person with whom you're talking, you might as well not use video at all.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by lostcolony on Monday August 30, 2021 @11:20AM (#28356491)
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply looking at the camera to meet the person's gaze is the "right" thing to do, or expected, or any such thing. Just that I've had times where I've thought "My video shows me looking down; I should probably look at the camera to give the appearance of eye contact".
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by itronitron on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:20AM (#28353414)
This video shows a project to create a one-way mirror that allows a person to view their monitor while 'looking at' the camera.

https://youtu.be/2AecAXinars

If I was planning to do any interviews I would definitely build and use this.

It also makes me wonder, when people are staring into the camera if they are looking at a photo instead of the camera lens.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by bongoman37 on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:07AM (#28354460)
This doesn't even account for the number of people who have multimonitor setups and no particular connection between camera position and where the call window might be.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by nickjj on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:47AM (#28354683)
> oh, I should look at my camera when I am talking

I'm not a really outgoing person but when I talk in real life I'm one of those people who tend to look into someone's eyes a lot when talking and listening, probably 97% eye contact from my end if I had to guess. It feels very weird not to do this but looking into the webcam is much worse for me because you can't see the other person at the same time.

I haven't figured out why I prefer eye contact, but I wonder if it has to do with being able to see what the other person is doing and how they're reacting to the conversation. You can pick up a lot of information when looking at someone's face.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by crubier on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:32AM (#28353470)
Basic reasoning will tell you that people who “look at you” during a video call are actually people who look at their camera.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by makeitdouble on Monday August 30, 2021 @04:25AM (#28353692)
Looking at it from the other way round, putting the active window (whatever it is) right below the camera makes the other side feel like getting attention.

Making the window small enough to not generate much eye movement when scrolling around is a refinement.

[dead]
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by pc86 on Monday August 30, 2021 @08:22AM (#28354897)
What is "psychopathic" about taking other people into account when using video conferencing?
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by skimberk1 on Monday August 30, 2021 @01:41AM (#28353067)
I know this is something Apple FaceTime does. I recently noticed that when I looked at myself during a video call it looked like I was making direct eye contact, whereas when I looked at the camera it looked like I was looking away. I thought maybe I was imagining things but I found this article to back it up: https://www.fastcompany.com/90372724/welcome-to-post-reality...

There’s also a video where someone shows how your eyes get distorted to cause the effect, but I can’t find it right now.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by e-clinton on Sunday August 29, 2021 @10:52PM (#28352405)
That’s not a feature of Teams. I know Microsoft had been testing processing eyes so that it looks like you’re straight into the camera, but no there’s no reliable way to do that based on who’s feed you’re watching.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by lostlogin on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:32AM (#28353252)
Some Sony still cameras have sometimes done funny things with the eyes. A friend bought one in Japan which made the eyes of any subject larger. I can’t seem to find anything online about it, but it was very strange before you realised.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by fomine3 on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:56AM (#28353324)
Magnifying eyes is common on Purikura machine in Japan. Some cameras including smartphones implement similar feature. I believe all camera have plain shoot mode.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by lostlogin on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:26AM (#28353233)
How would this work when the call has many people on it?

And poor her - big Teams meeting are actually awful and large meeting with it are not good.

A lot of my team members were in Australia which appears to have dismal internet, a terrible connection to New Zealand, or both.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by dheera on Sunday August 29, 2021 @10:59PM (#28352434)
That only works if they are on a laptop.

I work off a desktop with two 28" monitors and my camera sits above them in the center, and the meeting has to be on the left monitor or the right monitor, not straddling the middle, so you will never get that feeling of me looking directly at you.

I am, however, thinking of making something that deepfakes the perspective change correctly.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by jonhohle on Monday August 30, 2021 @12:27AM (#28352813)
Or, you know, move your camera 14 inches to one side or the other.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by dheera on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:40AM (#28356128)
Won't do much, it still looks at me from above because the monitor is so big.
Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by smackeyacky on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:11AM (#28353179)
Well, don't deepfake it. Strap a big long selfie stick to your head and hang the camera in front of your face :-)

I have two different setups, one with a laptop that has an external monitor; one that is my tower with two monitors. On both, the camera is basically over the monitor I use for video conferencing. I don't care if somebody notices me staring at the other monitor - it's no worse than staring at the desk during a face-to-face meeting while somebody else is talking.

Re:The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [... by DougWebb on Monday August 30, 2021 @12:25AM (#28352801)
I am, however, thinking of making something that deepfakes the perspective change correctly.

Or you could, you know, move the camera. I keep mine centered on top of my main monitor.