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Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by vmurthy on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:17AM (#28326359)
From the article : "In 2015, Mr Cook said he would give away his entire fortune before he dies, and is known to have donated tens of millions of dollars to charity".

Success during one's life , paying it back to make the society a better place once gone. Take a bow, Mr Cook. What more can one ask for in a lifetime :)

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by eliaspro on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:42AM (#28326545)
And during his lifetime, this money is locked away, only accessible by him, taken out of circulation and thereby not adding any worth against ever-growing inequality, supporting economic prosperity or tax-funded investments.

This is just once again a case of philanthropic green-washing of what should be actually simply heavily taxed.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by webinvest on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:54AM (#28326650)
That’s not how checking accounts, savings accounts, or shares of stock work. It’s only how physical dollars in your wallet work.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by s1artibartfast on Friday August 27, 2021 @11:29AM (#28329083)
I think this is an important insight, but not without challenges. One could argue that stocks in the secondary market work like a wallet. Funds from additional offerings do go on a company ledger and get spent, but in investor to investor sale, the profits are mostly reinvested in other stock. Money leaves the market when it is diversified into other investment classes, or when investors spend profits outside the market, or gains are taxed.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by gomox on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:56AM (#28326669)
Taken out of circulation? The money will surely be invested into the economy where it will very much fund (profit motivated) initiatives.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by vmurthy on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:20AM (#28326861)
> This is just once again a case of philanthropic green-washing of what should be actually simply heavily taxed.

Not being snarky but heavily taxed and then what? Expect the government to make the best decision on how to spend money?

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by unethical_ban on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:31AM (#28326970)
Yes. I guess you want to live in a world where taxes are optional and we hope people like Tim Cook would charitably repair failing bridges and provide healthcare to communities.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by DSingularity on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:30AM (#28326956)
I think if we go heavy handed against wealth inequality then we should also legislate conservative spending by governments. This money can’t go to the fund next Afghanistan or to Israel to fund another settlement. It has to go to simple but surely-helpful efforts like: feeding the poor, improving education, and building infrastructure.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by bzbarsky on Friday August 27, 2021 @10:14AM (#28328051)
Both improving education and building infrastructure, as they are actually practiced, are not "simple" and questionably "surely-helpful". See also bridges to nowhere and schools with top-of-the-line computers but broken heating/cooling systems.

Just throwing money at things does not mean it gets used to actually improve them, unfortunately... The question is when you have gotten to diminishing, or negative, returns.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by DSingularity on Friday August 27, 2021 @12:28PM (#28329756)
So what’s the alternative? If you are unwilling to build schools for the poor. If you are unwilling to build water cleaning stations for the poor. If you are unwilling to build them libraries and parks. Then you are basically willing to let them live as third class citizens. We need to recognize this.

In my opinion the whole “throwing money at the problem is not a solution” excuse is not enough to justify maintaining status quo. Yes, I agree, governments are the worst at efficient spending. Wasted money. Unjustified spending. Corruption. Nonetheless, we have a problem that must be solved.

If the wealthy have a better idea that involves no money being spent — great. But let’s not pretend like the human cost is going to go on pause while we debate this. Impoverished children will continue to live and grow in environments that do not help them to break out of poverty. What is worse is that the odds are getting worse for them because disparities are getting larger.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by bzbarsky on Friday August 27, 2021 @02:48PM (#28331567)
> So what’s the alternative?

To which?

I think we should encourage/require government spending on things that are actually useful (and I acknowledge that there is wide-ranging disagreement on this criterion) and fund such spending adequately.

At the same time we need to have reasonable accountability for governments doing stupid things with money, notice when it's happening, and make it stop, redirecting those funds to something productive. Whether that happens via lower government revenues or reallocated government spending depends on whether there is something productive the government can spend the money on.

The things that you list, and many you don't (quality schools, both physical plant and teacher quality, libraries, parks, clean water, free school lunches, free preventative medical care, etc, etc ) generally pass the "is productive" smell test until proven otherwise; the burden of proof there should be on critics to prove that the investment is not being done in a useful way. That said, once that burden of proof is met, action needs to take place to remedy that.

> In my opinion the whole “throwing money at the problem is not a solution” excuse

You're putting words in my mouth here. For a lot of these things, throwing money at them is a _necessary_ but not _sufficient_ condition for having a solution. If you don't fund your schools adequately they will be bad, but if you just throw money at them and it gets misused in ways that don't advance learning they will also be bad. The whole "there's a whole warehouse of unused computers in that school district" thing is not _common_, but it's also not unknown when it happens it's really bad and needs to be fixed. Both in terms of the immediate problem and the bad incentives that led to it.

So just saying "allocate money to this" is not the end of the road. You have to then make sure the money gets used sanely.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by azth on Friday August 27, 2021 @10:34AM (#28328311)
The solution is Zakat. Look it up.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by Aeolun on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:47AM (#28326596)
Lol, you think the money is any less locked in Apple’s coffers?

At least there is a chance it goes somewhere good now.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by pavlov on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:54AM (#28326658)
Since these are stock awards, the money really comes from old and new Apple shareholders, not the company itself.

When the stock award was granted, existing shareholders agreed to dilute their holdings by allowing the company to issue new shares to Cook. And when Cook sells this newly issued stock for cash, the money comes from new shareholders who want a slice of Apple (or existing shareholders buying more, thus paying cash for the shares they themselves gave to Cook).

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by Aeolun on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:56AM (#28326677)
Yeah?

If people have money to spend on Apple stock they clearly don’t need it to survive.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by pavlov on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:20AM (#28326859)
Who said anything about that? I wanted to clarify that the money Cook is receiving isn’t paid out of Apple’s cash reserves.

Although the question you raise is an interesting one in the sense that many buyers of Apple stock are indirectly depending on it to make a living after they’ve stopped working. For a blue chip giant like Apple, many of the buyers are index funds and pensions where the ultimate beneficiaries are retirees. They literally are buying Apple stock to survive, although through intermediaries.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by spottybanana on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:26AM (#28326412)
He is already making society a better place by making products and services that people value. Charity isn't the only option for that.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by diordiderot on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:42AM (#28326544)
Just like the Sineloa Cartel! People would die to get their hands in their product.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by jollybean on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:36AM (#28326489)
He is only making society better if the value he is creating is larger than the value he is extracting.

You can build a regular home, get paid $5 million for it, the net act was probably negative for the system.

It's the same for companies turning profits: it's entirely possible to make profits in a system while actually shrinking the overall pie. This is common when certain activities are externalized (i.e. pollution).

Capitalism, broadly, does create a bigger pie, but it's a very uneven process and the true value creation doesn't always happen where the value is created. Value capture happens where the power is.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by DasIch on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:31AM (#28326448)
Rich people spend money on charities they like. They change society the way they want it to change that does not necessarily make society a better place nor is it necessarily what most people want.

If he had to pay all of this on taxes, society could decide how to use that money and it would be just as much, if not more "a better place".

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by MikeLumos on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:04AM (#28326738)
Why does everyone think that they know better how to spend other people's money than the people who have earned it?

Somehow the people who didn't have the intelligence and discipline to spend decades successfully doing things that make them rich are so sure that they would be able to do better with their (totally hypothetical) wealth than the people who did.

Everyone loves to claim some kind of moral superiority over the billionaires, but I don't see these critics spending a significant portion of their wealth on charity.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by unethical_ban on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:38AM (#28327023)
Why does everyone think that the person receiving money knows how to spend it better than any other person?

Notice I didn't say "earned" because the entire premise of some is that one cannot morally "earn" a billion dollars - that something is fundamentally broken in our society when wealth can become so centralized.

Some people make fun of the idea that government is a decent decisionmaker for spending money on society, whenever raising taxes on the wealthy comes up. Where do you draw the line? Do you think they currently are taxed perfectly? Do you think no one should be taxed? How would the infrastructure these companies relied on get funded?

Oh, I see you committed another trope of comparing the earnings of anyone on this thread (and about 95% of the country) to a billionaire. The floor for living comfortably, or even somewhat luxuriously, is a much higher proportion of the wages of a middle class household than it is for a billionaire. I make 0.02% annually of just this bonus. Don't you think that makes a difference in the equation?

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by avianlyric on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:22AM (#28326883)
I don’t ones a ability to make money is even vaguely correlated with once ability to spend well for the benefit of society.

Hell the whole reason why democracy is thing is because monarchies of yesteryear have proven quite decisively that the ability to raise capital and spend well for society are not even remotely linked.

We need to consider very carefully as a society what the impact of the billionaire class has on how our society develops, and the outsized impacts they can have on democratic processes.

Personally I don’t think having such wealthy individuals is a good idea. Their wealth is so great it’s pretty much impossible for them not to get wealthier, and do it at a rate greater than than the vast majority of people. And their ability to deploy that capital to influence society is scary, effectively taking the role of government to provide social services, and placing it in the hands of a wealth few.

We’ve already seen what more extreme individuals are prepared to do with that power, just a Hobbylobby and David Green’s continued vendetta against abortions and safe contraceptives.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by MikeLumos on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:45AM (#28327087)
The alternative to a billionaire deciding how to spend the money they have earned is a politician deciding to spend the money they didn't earn.

I trust a person who has generated billions of dollars worth of value over a buerocrat who won a popularity contest.

Besides, I don't think it should matter whether or not these people spend their money optimally. They've made this money, it's theirs. Don't take other people's stuff.

> We’ve already seen what more extreme individuals are prepared to do with that power.

Until we leave in a featureless dystopia where all people are perfect clones brought up in an identical environment, there will be power disparity between people. It can be based on inheritance (like in monarchies), or ability to commit violence, or charisma, or political skill, or ability to create value.

Between all these options, I'd much rather live in society where people get to keep the value they have created. It seems to me the most correlated with merit (not perfectly, but better than the alternatives), besides, it is morally right.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by avianlyric on Friday August 27, 2021 @11:23AM (#28329005)
Eh, call me old fashioned, but I like to vote for the people who have significant influence over the society I live in.

Politicians may not be perfect, but they’re much easier to hold to account that high net worth individuals. I personally consider that a killer feature when picking my power brokers.

We already take others people stuff for the public good. It’s called taxes. That money built the roads you use everyday and props up the society you live in by helping to ensure that everyone gets a decent quality of life.

Simple fact of the matter is that no individual has any practical use for wealth measured in billions. It’s wealth that could be better put to use help the poorest in society, and helping us navigate the next hundred years of climate change and associated social unrest.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by unethical_ban on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:42AM (#28356146)
See, you keep saying "value they created" rather than "value they extracted from others in society".
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by Invictus0 on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:50AM (#28326616)
Why this criticism? Is HIV research not a good enough cause for you? Much better than a 10 billion dollar airport or 15 billion dollar Olympics in my opinion.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by avianlyric on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:26AM (#28326911)
There’s no guarantee that Tim’s going to use his money for “good” causes, we’re entirely dependent on his good will.

He may go down the evangelical Christian path and fund a war of sex, abortions, gays, trans and people’s reproductive rights. That’s not even a hypothetical outcome, there’s plenty of millionaires and billionaires (like David Green) already funding that war.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by bzbarsky on Friday August 27, 2021 @10:18AM (#28328094)
Tim funding a war on "gays" would be .... very surprising.

But also, there's no guarantee that _anyone_ including the government will use money for "good" causes. Bridges to nowhere, military adventurism, wars on drugs, personal enrichment of politicians and government employees, vanity projects of various sorts, the list of things governments mis-spend on is vast.

And of course we don't all agree on the relative merits of different causes.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by avianlyric on Friday August 27, 2021 @11:17AM (#28328928)
True, but at least you can vote a government out of power. Same can’t be said for billionaires.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by bzbarsky on Friday August 27, 2021 @02:37PM (#28331458)
The practical distinction is often not there except for things that are so egregious there is a good chance billionaires would be crossing the boundaries of legality for doing them. But yes, government does have a slight edge on billionaires for accountability, I agree.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by golergka on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:46AM (#28326585)
Society had already decided how to use that money when it's members were buying Apple products.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by jollybean on Friday August 27, 2021 @07:34AM (#28326465)
What is the point of grabbing surpluses and then handing them back?

Re: the note above about Foxconn workers, Cooks money comes from the market power developed by Apple which they can leverage on everyone in the system, consumers, workers, suppliers, distributors etc..

So he can leverage against Foxconn workers and then give $1B to charity - or he could not leverage, and double Foxconn workers wages. And that's just his comp, not everything else.

Now - maybe there is a theoretical greater efficiency in his charity work, and of course it's spent on 'his interests' not others, etc..

But the notion of 'giving it away' doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless that giving is frankly more effective than otherwise.

I think Gates Foundation for example is reasonable - a lot of philanthropy is effective in ways that governments and regular private corps are not - that makes sense.

But from a purely charitable perspective, it does seem a little bit odd to accumulate in one column on the ledger in order to put it back in the other column.

Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by cuillevel3 on Friday August 27, 2021 @08:48AM (#28327120)
Why not just pay taxes instead? That's literally paying it back to society.
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by sumedh on Friday August 27, 2021 @09:08AM (#28327335)
To fund wars in Afghanistan and Iraq or some other country?
Re:Apple chief executive Tim Cook gets $750m payout by purple_ferret on Friday August 27, 2021 @09:09AM (#28327340)
He's got no kids so, where else would it go?