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Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by blueflow on Monday August 23, 2021 @11:02AM (#28276841)
I don't see why criticizing BLM automatically makes something racist. BLM has alot to be criticized for, but i'd think most of it is not really tangential to the virtue of its anti-racist cause. MLK also cheated on his wife, and its fine to criticize him for that, but that doesn't make his other efforts invalid.

I searched about the Chicago shooting deaths, and i don't see how it makes any point for or against BLM?

And, even if BLM is selectively in what they care about. Aren't they allowed to?

I feel like i got between the fronts of for-BLM and against-BLM groupthink.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by hairofadog on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:02PM (#28277926)
> I don't see why criticizing BLM automatically makes something racist.

It doesn't! Any social movement, no matter how just their cause, should be willing to accept valid criticism. However, when Person A says "look at this instance of systemic racism" and someone else replies "But MLK cheated on his wife!!", that's not arguing in good faith; that's commonly known as "whataboutism". [^1]

> I searched about the Chicago shooting deaths, and i don't see how it makes any point for or against BLM?

This is what makes it a dog whistle. The words are "google Chicago shootings", and there's nothing wrong with the literal meaning of those words, but other people here clearly received the message "this point about systemic racism is invalid because BLM is a bunch of hypocrites".

If you google for the exact phrase "google Chicago shootings", including the word "google", you will find many instances of people using that phrase to make bad faith arguments criticizing the Black Lives Matter movement.

[^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by blueflow on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:12PM (#28278106)
> If you google for the exact phrase "google Chicago shootings", including the word "google"

This thread is the first result for me. Not kidding. Could it be that you made it up that its a dog whistle? I'm doubting your good faith here.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by handrous on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:23PM (#28279140)
There's a whole pile of twitterese phrases like this that are used to fly under moderation radar. Some refer to specific standard sections of Wikipedia's biographical articles in order to highlight that a person's Jewish, some are like this (that's why the "google" is important to triggering one's "this might be one of those things" alarms—a common pattern for these is directing people to look at another resource, using set phrasing)

Yes, seeing dog-whistles everywhere gets tedious (for all concerned) but the above is, unfortunately, a real thing. I'd be surprised to see it used with that intent on HN, though.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by blueflow on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:56PM (#28279572)
I still think you guys are bullshitting me. What prevents me from looking up phrases from your post on the internet, pick out some social groups that also use that phrase and claim you are associated with it? There isn't even a way for you to falsify it.

> There's a whole pile of twitterese phrases like this that are used to fly under moderation radar.

What rule is it breaking to tell people to "google chicago shootings"?

And my question

> How does the second statement relate to racism?

is still not answered. Is just knowing the information about the Chicago gun violence putting some folks at disadvantage? Where is the implied link here?

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by handrous on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:10PM (#28279774)
> I still think you guys are bullshitting me. What prevents me from looking up phrases from your post on the internet, pick out some social groups that also use that phrase and claim you are associated with it? There isn't even a way for you to falsify it.

I understand. If you don't keep an eye on the right parts of the right sites (including, in particular, Twitter, but also others) you've probably never seen this kind of thing actually done with the intent to slyly express racist or white supremacist junk. In the right places, though, it's commonplace and only barely veiled (questions from newbies who don't "get it" draw winky-emoji, or more veiled pointers so the newbie can triangulate the real intended meaning, that kind of thing).

> What rule is it breaking to tell people to "google chicago shootings"?

It's not, that's the point. They're dodges/stand-ins for other things, including prior whistles that are recognized as breaking the rules and do get moderated. The more deniable, the better.

In some cases, there's some unfortunate overlap between actual concerns about a real issue (black-on-black violence) which one might innocently express interest in, and precisely the same issue (and, specifically, Chicago, for this issue) as a common short-hand for rejecting the importance of other issues of violence against black people (you see how useful it would be for shifting blame or implying even worse things, if one wanted to do that, right?), or a kind of conversation starter for what amounts to a recruitment script.

[EDIT] to be clear, I'm not claiming you had ill intent. I'm explaining why that phrasing and topic set off some alarm bells for some people.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by blueflow on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:21PM (#28279898)
I'm very glad i wasn't born in the US.
Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by handrous on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:44PM (#28280204)
I get that.

I happened to catch an actual, no-bullshit white supremacist recruitment program on a fairly high-powered (like, literally—they have quite a bit of broadcast power) local AM radio station a few months back (I checked their schedule afterward, out of curiosity, and much of the rest was religious programming—go figure). By which I don't mean they were explicitly saying "come to the Knights of Columbus hall at 7:00 on Wednesday for our meetings", but they were going through this plainly carefully scripted soft-handed discussion (two-host format) and doing a lot of "just asking questions" but somehow those questions kept taking them right up to the edge—and I mean right up to the edge—of "it's the Jews and black people who are the problem", meanwhile they're dropping one phrase or historical reference after another that's unmistakably from white supremacist "thought", as in, encountered basically nowhere but there, so their listeners have a nice list of things to google that will definitely lead them further down the rabbit hole. It was unreal. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but they just kept going with that stuff, relentlessly. It was the entire thing they were doing, nothing else. It was very different from normal right-wing radio, which I hear a lot of (what can I say, I have a problem and enjoy listening to nutty crap when driving) and there was no doubt what they were up to.

There's some real WTF to be found in this country. Everyone freaking out about dog whistles is ridiculous, and those accusations are abused. But then you hear something like the above, and... yeah, it's a real thing sometimes. Very strange place.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by xenophonf on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:05PM (#28279693)
My DDG search for "google Chicago shootings" is the same as thewakalix's:

https://imgur.com/a/EAQeubu

Here are my Google search results:

https://imgur.com/a/D8XLt29

As another data point, I've been hearing variations of that phrase online or in person for ages from my racist family and (former) friends.

Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by thewakalix on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:16PM (#28279036)
Google gives personalized search results. It seems Google is aware that you frequent Hacker News. DuckDuckGo has non-personalized search results: https://archive.vn/mxh08.
Re:Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’ by AzzieElbab on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:40PM (#28280143)
I get this thread as first result from google.com in incognito window https://imgur.com/nsvBk4O