News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by gpas on Sunday August 22, 2021 @09:23AM (#28265259)
From the explaining blog post [0]

> If you’re not interested in how it works and you just want to do monkey patching, then you can find the library here.

Also

> Wrapping it up in a nice library

> I took the above code and put it in an easy to use library. It supports 32 bit, reversing patches, and patching instance methods. I wrote a couple of examples and put those in the README.

Then in the README[1]:

> Make sure you read the notes at the bottom of the README if you intend to use this library.

Either the author is confused or has decided that he doesn't want to maintain an hack. Anyway license is pretty clear.

There was an HN thread[2] when it was released.

[0] https://bou.ke/blog/monkey-patching-in-go/

[1] https://github.com/bouk/monkey

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9290917

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by slim on Sunday August 22, 2021 @04:10PM (#28269119)
The author is not confused, it's like an actually enforcable version of "use it at your own risk" because it includes legal risk. It's clever and funny
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by DangitBobby on Sunday August 22, 2021 @04:25PM (#28269253)
Gonna have to disagree that it's funny.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by hnarn on Monday August 23, 2021 @03:43AM (#28273228)
Why not? Do you feel entitled to a warranty?
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by DangitBobby on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:10PM (#28278069)
I just don't think "here's a neat thing... tee-hee you can't use it!" Is funny. I don't know if "neener neener" was ever funny to me, even as a child. I understand that it's important to you to bandy about "subtle" accusations by using words like "entitle" so you can feel like you have a point, but there's nothing more there. If I felt entitled I would just ignore the license and use the code anyway.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by hnarn on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:15PM (#28278140)
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by DangitBobby on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:53PM (#28279524)
I have a hard time believing that the word "entitle" was accompanied by no judgement, but if not, then I apologize for making assumptions. I find feelings of entitlement to be largely the result of selfishness or delusion, and so when I hear it applied to me, that's what I think is being said.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by bouk on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#28265579)
It's satirical
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by nextaccountic on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:33AM (#28265790)
It seems that you're not interested in suing anyone over this. However, you still don't give people permission to use, not even in small throwaway tests. Which is fair.

But your blog post[0] language suggests that you are okay with and even incentivizes people trying this out (even if trying it out might be technically illegal, because it infringes your rights).

I think you should have mentioned something about the license in your blog post. As it stands, "If you’re not interested in how it works and you just want to do monkey patching, then you can find the library here." is misleading. If the user wants to do monkey patching, they better not look at your code and program their own solution.

[0] https://bou.ke/blog/monkey-patching-in-go/

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by bouk on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:41AM (#28265845)
Pretty funny right?
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by bryik on Sunday August 22, 2021 @04:34PM (#28269337)
Not really. The JSLint license is funny because objecting to the "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil." requirement looks like an admission of malintent. Doubly funny that it compelled IBM to ask for explicit permission to use JSLint for evil.

Your project, on the other hand, just looks like it was designed to waste people's time. Congrats I guess?

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by jamesjansson on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:33AM (#28266282)
No, don't screw around with people legally. It makes you look dishonest.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by tptacek on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:52PM (#28267087)
He does not look dishonest. He looks like the hero we all deserve. Dial it back a bit, would you?
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by mdoms on Sunday August 22, 2021 @03:47PM (#28268866)
I think his satire is excellent. Look at how these silly licenses are simultaneously taken very serious and frankly not taken seriously at all. I think he has proven something really quite interesting, and in a pretty amusing way.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by icedchai on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:47PM (#28267025)
How is he screwing around with anyone legally? Has anyone been sued over this? Most of this stuff is unenforceable in any meaningful way. Worst case is really some nasty emails.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by nhutton1 on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:47PM (#28270454)
I think so. There is also second-order funnyness from all of the very serious nerds who don't find it funny at all. I'm loving it ahah!
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by eurasiantiger on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:27AM (#28266227)
Not in the slightest, but I guess that’s your kick.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by nextaccountic on Monday August 23, 2021 @04:48AM (#28273586)
I mean you trolled a lot of devs and they are now salty over this silly thing and uhmm I think it's my poor sense of humor but I don't usually find practical jokes that funny.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by QuadmasterXLII on Sunday August 22, 2021 @01:13PM (#28267365)
I found it really funny!
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by akiselev on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:32AM (#28266277)
Has anyone ever tested in court whether a license has to be made in good faith to be binding?
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by jkaplowitz on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:46AM (#28266407)
Well, if it isn't binding, then there's no right to reuse it (beyond certain fair use exceptions) under the copyright law that applies by default.

For me the question is whether the misleading blog post would be found by a court to be an implicit license separate from the one in the codebase. My guess is that it would depend on several factors including the specific circumstances of the accused infringer and the specifics of contract/copyright law in the relevant jurisdiction, but probably at least sometimes yes.

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by nextaccountic on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:54AM (#28266473)
TIL something can be implicitly licensed. Well the term is implied license https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_license
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by Vinnl on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:22PM (#28266771)
An open source licence generally only gives additional rights. If it's not binding, then default copyright would apply, meaning you're still not allowed to use it.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by concordDance on Sunday August 22, 2021 @01:51PM (#28267752)
Yes, I had a chortle, particularly at the reactions in this thread. :D

Though I'm an anarchist who thinks people give the law as written far too much weight. (As opposed to what the population as a whole thinks is good or bad)

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by bawolff on Sunday August 22, 2021 @01:27PM (#28267528)
What is it satirizing?

Or is this just a post-hoc "its just a joke bro. Y u mad?"

Regardless, its your code, do what you want.

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by DangitBobby on Sunday August 22, 2021 @04:26PM (#28269263)
Ding ding ding. There is no satire to be found here.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by eurasiantiger on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:20AM (#28265685)
Have you checked how many projects depend on Monkey? It seems the blog post has been translated and reposted many times. Satire does not translate well.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by bhaak on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:11AM (#28266100)
Satire doesn't work very well on the internet in textual context. That's why emoticons were invented.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by gpas on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:23AM (#28265708)
It crossed my mind...

Thanks for chiming in and clear the misunderstanding.

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by merrywhether on Sunday August 22, 2021 @10:53AM (#28265945)
You can also check the revision dates and see that the license was updated a year after the readme, which would imply any encouraging language in the readme is simply out of date.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by llimos on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:30AM (#28266259)
Presumably revision 697673d58359af7ebdcad66f99b81d011359d8ef and earlier is perfectly fine to use, lacking a LICENSE.txt and with the README encouraging use
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by Shank on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:43AM (#28266372)
If no license is present, the default is actually “all rights reserved.” This is the same level of restriction.

https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by Vinnl on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:23PM (#28266784)
That said,

> If you publish your source code in a public repository on GitHub, according to the Terms of Service, other users of GitHub have the right to view and fork your repository.

https://docs.github.com/en/github/creating-cloning-and-archi...

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by Macha on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:33PM (#28266875)
The actual term (D.5 from https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-terms-o... )

> Any User-Generated Content you post publicly, including issues, comments, and contributions to other Users' repositories, may be viewed by others. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and "fork" your repositories (this means that others may make their own copies of Content from your repositories in repositories they control).

> If you set your pages and repositories to be viewed publicly, you grant each User of GitHub a nonexclusive, worldwide license to use, display, and perform Your Content through the GitHub Service and to reproduce Your Content solely on GitHub as permitted through GitHub's functionality (for example, through forking). You may grant further rights if you adopt a license. If you are uploading Content you did not create or own, you are responsible for ensuring that the Content you upload is licensed under terms that grant these permissions to other GitHub Users.

This allows you to browse and use the fork button to create a repository. It's unclear if the second paragraph is clarifying, or adding to the first term. If it's additive, then you might also have permission to host your own private repo off service.

Nowhere does it give you a license to _use_ the contents of the repository in your software. Nor does it allow you to publish the contents outside github - the first paragraph does not address publishing, and the second makes it clear that paragraph only applies "through Github's functionality".

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by Vinnl on Monday August 23, 2021 @03:48AM (#28273254)
> Nowhere does it give you a license to _use_ the contents of the repository in your software. Nor does it allow you to publish the contents outside github

To clarify, I did not mean to say that it does; I merely wanted to make people aware of the fact that some "default" restrictions are lifted when you publish on GitHub (just like when I type this comment on HN).

Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by tptacek on Sunday August 22, 2021 @12:53PM (#28267102)
The idea that the Github terms of service negate "All rights reserved" in any public repository is a bold claim indeed.
Re:Project includes a dependancy that has a license that for... by dmurray on Sunday August 22, 2021 @03:53PM (#28268939)
You're granting GitHub the right to display your content to other users, and to make additional copies of it ("forks"). Those seem like reasonable rights to assign to Github when agreeing to their terms of service. I think it's completely clear that putting "all rights reserved" doesn't allow you to opt out of certain parts of the ToS, any more than the "I do not allow Facebook to use my content..." pseudo-legalese borderline-sovereign-citizen nonsense that goes viral every time Facebook change their privacy policy.