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Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by bodge5000 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @03:30AM (#28231316)
Time for the daily/weekly/monthly note taking and productivity thread!

On a serious note, I actually like these threads. Earlier in the year I decided to look into better note taking and task management, and it became an entire month of me gradually becoming more and more stressed about it. HN was actually a great source for this, mostly because a lot of the people on here seem a bit less "into it" than dedicated sources, and help bring me back down to earth.

In the end, my solution was simple. Stop trying. Of course, because I get a bit obsessive over this kind of thing (who could have guessed that a man who spent an entire month thinking about note taking can be obsessive), I couldn't just stop. So instead, I set myself a reminder to come back to it in a month, knowing full well that by then I'll be obsessed with the next thing and will keep putting it off.

I write this in case anyone else is going through the same dilemma. Just take a break, get a notebook where you can jot down ideas for how you will jot down ideas, set a reminder, and move on with your life. Unless your enjoy this sort of thing, in which case, have fun :)

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by lkois on Thursday August 19, 2021 @05:19AM (#28231843)
I've found the perfect notebooks for me are A5 spiral bound dot grids. Fairly compact size, unintrusive binding. The dot grid forces less structure than lined, but isn't the wild west of blank.

A few months ago I also looked into a bunch of note taking methods, even bought a similar A5, spiral bound, pre-formatted organizer and thought it'd be perfect for organizing my days. It remains unused except for a couple of lines where I began to note the days tasks, then crossed them out and tried to start again the next day.

But a dot grid purchased around the same time is filling up very quickly with odd chicken scratchings of work notes. The only hint of structure are dates scrawled wherever I happened to be starting from that day. Any very important things get circled or marked with an asterisk

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by smarx007 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @07:14AM (#28232461)
I have since improved on a similar setup by using B5 notebooks with margins (to punch holes) and "filing stripes" [1]. It allows me to take notes of different kinds ("odd chicken scratchings of work notes") just by opening a new clean sheet (at a cost of occasionally wasting a clean page on the reverse side of a previous sheet) and then tear the sheets off and file them neatly (I use the stripes upside down so that an append "operation" is less costly).

For long-running projects, I also use A5 notebooks that are pre-partitioned at a given % (I use 60-70%). The idea is that you go over your old notebook with "odd chicken scratchings", count the number of pages spent on each topic, calculate the ratios and multiply them by 70%*NUM_PaGES. Then you allocate this number of pages in the new (clean) notebook and put tab stickers on each section. I also leave around 4 pages for the TOC in the beginning of a notebook. It's just 2 sheets, but the ability to go back and put an extensive TOC later helps a lot when you refer to a finished notebook. With a bit of patience, you can but together a perfectly ordered TOC in a completely messy notebook (by doing one pass over all notes before writing down the TOC and grouping them by project). I also tried keeping notes on paper and writing down the TOC digitally in my Evernote to keep it searchable.

Regarding spiral binding, I find it too flimsy. If you damage the spiral, flipping pages would cause damage to the pages. I prefer hardbound notebooks. I use fountain pens and previously used expensive paper but since the pandemic I tried Idena [2] and it simply blew me away with its high quality and ink resistance (except for some rare inks) at such a low cost (but I had to give up the dot grid).

Ultimately, I am convinced that all of this has a limit and a Zettelkasten method of sorts is needed for a long-running knowledge base project.

[1]: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B004F69CRC [2]: https://www.amazon.de/Idena-209281-Notizbuch-kariert-schwarz...

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by gennarro on Thursday August 19, 2021 @07:56AM (#28232720)
I recently experimented a bunch a ended up simply using a set of composition notebooks[0]. These are cheap, classic, and they prevent pages being torn out (which I was prematurely doing when I thought I was done with a thread).

[0] https://unsharpen.com/composition-notebook/

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by Tomte on Thursday August 19, 2021 @08:06AM (#28232766)
Currently I'm using blank A7 index cards, with a fold-back clip. A bit like the Hipster PDA.

I'm not sure I'll stay with that, but so far it looks good. I like the thick paper, the wide availability and the low price. I can reorder stuff, I can take single index cards out, and I don't regret throwing cards away.

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by amimetic on Thursday August 19, 2021 @10:28AM (#28234249)
This "Dev builds perfect note-taking system which only stores info about building note-taking systems": https://www.theolognion.com/dev-builds-perfect-note-taking-s... is well timed
Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by bodge5000 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:17AM (#28234941)
Also somewhat relevant

https://xkcd.com/874/

Edit: Apparently not relevant (I still think it is), or someone spends their day doing just this and isn't happy that its being pointed out. Either way, they're not happy

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by gglitch on Thursday August 19, 2021 @07:06AM (#28232408)
To forestall premature optimization about notebooks or any form of linearity, I start with looseleaf paper.
Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by bodge5000 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @07:36AM (#28232596)
For me it was actually the opposite, I went with a small, bound notebook so I couldnt obsess over how things are arranged and what goes where and what goes in the front and so on. Basically its the most basic, limiting system I could find, short of carving my notes into stone

Obviously that rigidity has its flaws but not to worry, I'll deal with that later. Or at least thats what I tell myself ;)

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by twic on Thursday August 19, 2021 @09:54AM (#28233830)
Who is the audience for these threads?

The only time in my life i've taken substantial quantities of notes was when i was a student. When i've had a job, the learning i do isn't the kind where i'm making copious notes.

Are there a lot of students on HN? Are there a lot of people doing out-of-hours study? Do people make lots of notes at work? Is this productivity LARP?

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by pionar on Thursday August 19, 2021 @10:11AM (#28234043)
ADHD sufferer here, taking notes is ESSENTIAL.

I don't have a system though, just a series of OneNote notebooks that I organize when I can get to it.

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by kaliszad on Thursday August 19, 2021 @08:20PM (#28240955)
I would be really glad, if you could try out OrgPad.com and give us some feedback. (Disclaimer: I work for OrgPad if that wasn't obvious.)

We think, OrgPad has a number of strong advantages above OneNote:

- it is generally way simpler and tries to actually help you and not throw sticks under your feet

- OrgPad has well thought out animations that make OrgPad feel more natural

- OrgPad enables you to think a lot more visually, this has a nice property that if you use OrgPad honestly, it is as if you looked onto your mind in a mirror

- it will actually develop further and improve constantly

There is of course a lot more. We use OrgPad for everything, from management of the company, software development planing and progress tracking, note taking/ documentation to personal bureaucracy.

For more information you can look at The Vision of OrgPad: https://www.orgpad.com/s/VjMKIa7bfnN For pricing information, you can look at: https://orgpad.com/s/pricing you can start to use OrgPad for free, for extensive usage, you might want to upgrade to 6 USD/ month or 60 USD/ year once we go live with the pricing which should be at the end of this month. You can also get in touch on our social media: https://www.orgpad.com/o/DGdsoOCsdCzolePMNiS1LM

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by mekoka on Thursday August 19, 2021 @05:31PM (#28239610)
One may embrace and become more dedicated to a note taking practice after realizing how much useful information would've been lost had they not jotted down some notes. It stems from a deeper acknowledgment of the limitations of the mind and the practicality of the pencil.

Taking your question from the reverse perspective, we can say that one does not take notes for at least one of two reasons, either because they think they can afford to forget the information they've already spent time to acquire, or they trust their mind to recall enough of it when they'll need to.

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by bodge5000 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @10:54AM (#28234604)
Can only speak for myself of course, but I'm not a student, nor are my notes for work (I do take notes at work, but they really dont need anything resembling a system at all).

These are more so notes for personal projects, ideas I have, things I need to do/todo lists, that kind of thing.

The basic idea is to try not to hold everything in your head, because it limits your ability to think clearly if your stressing about not forgetting stuff. I don't know how true that is, but I can say that for me I'm less stressed about something if I know I have it written down somewhere, even if I never come back to it. Its almost like I make it future-me's problem, rather than something I need to deal with now.

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by bikingbismuth on Thursday August 19, 2021 @10:42AM (#28234415)
I had this realization after my second attempt at implementing Zettelkasten. Most of my job is managing people. I take notes and to-dos, but nothing on the scale that ZK facilitates. Even when I do IC work, I rarely take in depth structured notes.
Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by AlanYx on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:56AM (#28235443)
To a large extent it probably depends on the nature of your work. I found that once I transitioned to more horizontal roles at work, taking good, organized notes became more essential.

I don't think the specific system matters all that much though. The recent popularity of Zettelkasten is not really about systems per se as much as it is about recognizing that being able to refer to other things, or tell what other things refer to the current thing, is valuable. For people who just sort their e-mails into Outlook folders and have never thought more deeply about any of this, it is often a helpful shift in one's mental model.

Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by exolymph on Thursday August 19, 2021 @02:06PM (#28237193)
If I don't write down everything I need to do, I will forget 1/4 of it, sometimes including crucial or time-sensitive items. Same goes for context, info that needs to be included in X deliverable, etc.
Re:The Zettelkasten Method (2019) by hnrj95 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @10:27AM (#28234230)
org-roam is kind of a port of this type of tooling to the org ecosystem in emacs, and i’ve found it extraordinarily helpful both for design/architecture on the job and for learning things, both rote and otherwise