News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Elm at Rakuten by PragmaticPulp on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @05:37PM (#28227498)
> When it comes to total cost of development, I think FP wins out even if you have to fill ecosystem gaps.

This is the core point I was disagreeing with:

In my experience (yes, I have used Elm and I enjoy various functional languages), this payoff never comes. There's always something more that needs attention, needs another developer, needs to be refactored because we forgot a use case, and so on.

And also in my experience, by the time you've invested the years of effort required to fill in gaps in the public package ecosystem, it's time to move on to the next niche language trend. I'd rather invest our time and energy in mainstream languages that have staying power, where we're not obligated to carry large parts of the open-source ecosystem by ourselves.

Re:Elm at Rakuten by whateveracct on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @05:49PM (#28227617)
Years, plural?? Maybe Elm is just way less mature, but I was on a team that shipped Haskell software with millions of users in about a year of dev time..and this included huge investments in many missing libraries..all on top of using GHCJS which required investments to the toolchain itself (Elm is definitely more mature now than GHCJS was at the time.)

But that was Haskell I guess. It's obviously not a "niche language trend" by now, so it was pretty clear it had staying power.

Definitely has paid off for me personally. My side projects move a lot faster and more stably now that I cut my teeth in production Haskell. A real free 10xer to my skills personally. And I gained the skills by getting my employer to finance my learning lmao.

Re:Elm at Rakuten by KronisLV on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @06:22PM (#28227896)
> And also in my experience, by the time you've invested the years of effort required to fill in gaps in the public package ecosystem, it's time to move on to the next niche language trend.

This probably depends on the complexity of what you need to do, as well as how well you want to do it.

I've seen people writing their own packages and pieces of systems in months, to typically pretty underwhelming results. However when writing code with tests, proper documentation, getting started guides etc., then what you're saying does sound way more plausible, especially if scope creep of any sorts is also present.

Would you care to comment on what sorts of systems take years to properly develop, though? Because in my experience that could be applicable to very few software projects out there.