News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by dataflow on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @03:54PM (#28133450)
> What does "ultra processed" mean? Cheese, bread, olive oil and most vegetables require processing to be made or nutritionally useful.

I don't have a scientific definition for you. Just use your common sense to figure out what average people would intuitively call ultra-processed, whatever it means to them. I'm pretty darn sure you would not arrive at the conclusion that ordinary people consider bread and most vegetables "ultra-processed foods".

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by itake on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:01PM (#28133546)
Why is bread not considered ultra-processed?

I am trying to use my common sense here. To create it, you must apply mechanical processing to grind wheat. Chemical processing for the yeast to reacting to the sugars. thermal processing to cook the bread. There is evaporation of the liquid in the bread.

This seems like a lot of processes required to create this.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by synquid on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:22PM (#28133884)
They're processed foods, but not ultra-processed. Generally that means advanced factory processes and chemicals that are only used in industrial settings. Factory made bread is likely to be ultra-processed, however.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by itake on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:36PM (#28134094)
Can you provide an example of a factory process that is only performed in a factory (and not in the kitchen + grocery store, e.g. flour is preprocessed wheat)? bonus points if this process applies to bread making.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by fanf2 on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:45PM (#28134231)
Compare the Chorleywood process to the way you would make bread at home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by CarelessExpert on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @05:32PM (#28134904)
If I'm reading this right, literally the only difference between this process and the one used in a home kitchen is "intense mechanical working by high-speed mixers, not feasible in a small-scale kitchen".

Otherwise the raw materials are the same:

> Flour, water, yeast, salt, fat, and, where used, minor ingredients common to many bread-making techniques such as Vitamin C, emulsifiers and enzymes are mechanically mixed for about three minutes.

In what way does this represent "processed" food in any material sense?

If anything, this sounds like a perfect example of the kind of fear mongering associated with the "processed food" label...

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by vb6sp6 on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @06:40PM (#28135653)
> Otherwise the raw materials are the same

Edit: I misread, sorry

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by CarelessExpert on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @07:10PM (#28135970)
> one uses dissolved co2 and low protein wheat and the other high protein wheat. One also goes through a fermentation process while the other does not. Salt content also varies

You've misread the Wikipedia page.

What you're describing is Dauglish's process that preceded CBP. Here's the key bit from the introduction:

> In 1862 a radically new and much cheaper industrial-scale process was developed by John Dauglish, using water with dissolved carbon dioxide instead of yeast, with no need for an eight-hour fermentation. Dauglish's method, used by the Aerated Bread Company that he set up, dominated commercial bread baking for a century until the Chorleywood process was developed.

Notice that last part of the sentence.

CBP, as described in the Wikipedia article, "is achieved through the addition of Vitamin C, fat, yeast, and intense mechanical working by high-speed mixers".

In particular, no CO2 is used with CBP. Bread is proofed by "[placing the dough] in a baking tin and [moving it] to the humidity- and temperature-controlled proofing chamber, where it sits for about 45–50 minutes", with the process aided through the use of dough conditioners like ascorbic acid.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by vb6sp6 on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @08:10PM (#28136396)
My bad, thanks for the info
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by sorokod on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @05:07PM (#28134557)
Not bread but... instant coffee, refined sugar.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by legerdemain on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @05:24PM (#28134794)
Instant coffee is simply coffee that is freeze-dried. That is the only step added above and beyond normal coffee-brewing. It is likely one of the least processed foods one can buy.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by sorokod on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:55AM (#28143621)
Ok instant granulated coffee.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by chithanh on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:20PM (#28133858)
> Why is bread not considered ulta-processed?

Even traditional bread is certainly highly processed, undergoing mechanical (milling), biochemical (fermentation), and thermal (baking) processing. It doesn't quite meet the definition of ultra-processed though as all these technologies are readily available to unsophisticated producers.

I think ultra-processed is some sort of proxy for hyperpalatable here.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by judge2020 on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:26PM (#28133936)
Indeed, there's a definition but this just adds the the starting comment's point that "ultra-processed" barely means anything in relation to how healthy something is to eat (and at what quantities).
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by legerdemain on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @05:22PM (#28134766)
Wouldn't most supermarket bread flour by itself meet the definition of ultra-processed, because it is bleached and enriched with micronutrients in a way that almost no consumer can do in the kitchen?
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by CarelessExpert on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @05:37PM (#28134968)
> because it is bleached and enriched with micronutrients in a way that almost no consumer can do in the kitchen?

What gave you that idea?

Bleached flour and various additives (such as ascorbic acid) are routinely used in home kitchens:

https://thebreadguide.com/using-ascorbic-acid-when-baking/

What, exactly, do you think goes into making a loaf of mass-produced bread?

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by legerdemain on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @09:12PM (#28136770)
The bleaching is what makes the flour, and by extension the bread made from it, ultra-processed, even if the bread is baked in a home setting. You misread.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by CarelessExpert on Thursday August 12, 2021 @01:58PM (#28159393)
Yes, I 100% did misread! My bad!
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by fancifalmanima on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:16PM (#28133785)
if you buy (from a bakery, probably not from the grocery store) or make bread made from minimally processed to processed flour, water, salt and yeast it would probably be considered minimally processed or processed. When I make homemade bread, those are literally all the ingredients. It has a very different texture, chewiness, and taste from something storebought. They're basically different things. And it doesn't last more than a day or two after cutting it open.

If you buy bread made from bleached white flour, sugar (in pretty much any white bread you buy from the supermarket), bread conditioners, preservatives, etc, it's probably considered ultraprocessed. It can also sit in your pantry for weeks.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by artimaeis on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:06PM (#28133630)
Bread could be classified as either processed or ultra-processed depending on ingredients and manufacturing techniques.

Ultra-processed bread would probably be made to have a longer shelf life and likely have more additives and preservatives.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by slothtrop on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:19PM (#28133843)
Bread can be ultra-processed. It can also be made with ground wheat grains that don't remove the germ or get bleached.
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by the__alchemist on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:03PM (#28133591)
> Just use your common sense to figure out what average people would intuitively call ultra-processed

How do I do that? Are we averaging the opinions of other people, or taking the opinion of the average person? By what metric?

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by willismichael on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:06PM (#28133634)
> I'm pretty darn sure you would not arrive at the conclusion that ordinary people consider bread and most vegetables "ultra-processed foods".

That depends on what you mean by bread. The sourdough loaf that I make out of flour straight from the grinder is a far cry from cheap white bread.

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by elil17 on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:06PM (#28133635)
Well according to the UN document linked in the article a loaf of bread is ultra-processed
Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by dataflow on Tuesday August 10, 2021 @04:42PM (#28134202)
"Another example of how broadening the initial definition of a highly or ultra-processed food may create confusion is the use of terms that, in themselves, are not precisely defined. For bread, initially defined as such in the NOVA food classification, examples might be the use of terms such as sliced, mass-produced, or sweetened. Their exact interpretation is not self-evident. [...]" [1]

Again, there's no unambiguous definition here. The UN has drawn one line out of many potentially valid ones. My point here isn't to argue word semantics. I'm just saying look at what the average person would consider "ultra-processed", whatever their definition (or lack thereof) might be.

P.S. I'm not even sure what you consider "ultra-processed bread" is good for people in any case.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6389637/

Re:U.S. Kids Are Getting Nearly 70% of Their Calories from '... by elil17 on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:21AM (#28143072)
I mean the whole wheat bread I eat everyday is sliced, mass produced, and sweetened a little bit (as are almost all whole wheat breads, regardless of whether they’re mass produced) - I’m pretty sure it’s as good for me as any other whole grain.