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Re:Messaging and chat control by herbst on Monday August 09, 2021 @08:56AM (#28116144)
It's still no and far from a direct democracy.
Re:Messaging and chat control by WastingMyTime89 on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:19AM (#28116404)
> far from a direct democracy.

And?

Direct democracies are far worth than representative democracies in practically everyway. The Covid crisis should have made clear to all that people are not policies experts.

Given than no country in the UE significantly uses direct democracy (referendums are pretty much never used and always devolve into a ridiculous race to who can say the most outrageous thing in front of the media), I don't see how that can be leveraged against the institution.

Re:Messaging and chat control by herbst on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:25AM (#28116461)
You realize that Switzerland hasen't voted to wear masks and get restrictions? Having a direct democracy does not mean the gov can't make their own decisions at times.
Re:Messaging and chat control by WastingMyTime89 on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:38AM (#28116625)
Yes, I do realize Switzerland doesn't actually use direct democracy for things that matter and when they do they often end up with xenophobic laws. I don't even want to talk about town assemblies voting on naturalisation decisions.
Re:Messaging and chat control by hhlbf on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:42AM (#28116682)
So if they want to be xenophobic, what's the problem? It's their country and they can do whatever they want with it.
Re:Messaging and chat control by epidemian on Monday August 09, 2021 @12:02PM (#28118541)
I'm not sure if this comment was troll bait; i'm going to reply as if it weren't.

> if they want to be xenophobic, what's the problem?

One of the problems is that even if the majority of people within a country are xenophobic and they get to decide the lays on a majority basis, there will still be people form other countries living there, or people who in general will be disadvantaged by xenophobic laws.

It's nice for laws to not be dictated only by a majority, but by a plurality. Instead of thinking "what benefits >50% of people is the right thing" we can think "what benefits the most people, including minorities", or "what avoids hurting the most people" to be the right things :)

Re:Messaging and chat control by MauranKilom on Monday August 09, 2021 @10:07AM (#28117016)
"So if they want to kill all the Jews, what's the problem? It's their country and they can do whatever they want with it."

Creating laws based on popularity makes populism rule. Hence why democracy usually has an explicit legislative branch abstracting over individual sentiments. That helps prevent policy from being devised through an overly greedy algorithm.

That is not to say it prevents all these problems. But it evidently helps.

Re:Messaging and chat control by thegrimmest on Monday August 09, 2021 @10:23AM (#28117221)
Well, the difference is that you're within your rights when you vote on whom to admit to your house/town/country. You're not within your rights to round up people already there and gas them. Let's not compare the two.
Re:Messaging and chat control by scrollaway on Monday August 09, 2021 @11:32AM (#28118177)
The parent comments are talking about direct democracy and its tendencies in Switzerland. Not specific policies (for you see, such extremes haven't come up for voting there lately). Perfectly comparable.
Re:Messaging and chat control by toxik on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:05AM (#28116244)
Direct democracy is not a panacea. In fact, it can be quite the opposite. Fair and effective governance is a very difficult thing to achieve, tending either to be subvertible, or totalitarian.
Re:Messaging and chat control by herbst on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:06AM (#28116264)
Not saying that is not true. Yet living in one of the few direct democracies it is the very best we have in terms of democracy. On a bigger scale liquid democracy may is more interesting.

Edit:// the EU or even the US has shown multiple times that it will act against the majority of they can.

Re:Messaging and chat control by t0bia_s on Monday August 09, 2021 @12:26PM (#28118856)
Democracy cannot work without free acces to information. However, most people wont care about it. Especially nowadays when public opinions are shaped by social networks with censorship and sensations. We can implement all kind of ideologies on masses very fast. So direct democracy could be more dangerous than you can imagine.
Re:Messaging and chat control by bondarchuk on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:22AM (#28116427)
I think representative democracy specifically does not work to stave off totalitarianism. When the issue under consideration is about increasing the power of politicians over the citizenry, many politicians will switch from voting as representatives of citizens, to voting as politicians. A binding referendum that can only retract proposed laws, like we have/had/will have (sorry, I don't know exactly) in NL, seems like it could largely solve this issue, provided it gets sufficient traction.
Re:Messaging and chat control by tacocataco on Monday August 09, 2021 @10:59AM (#28117755)
Direct democracy is best when the amount of people voting stays small. Think local government.
Re:Messaging and chat control by loriverkutya on Monday August 09, 2021 @08:58AM (#28116163)
Can you please be sensible? Direct demoracy is not working with 445 million people.
Re:Messaging and chat control by lwn on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:59AM (#28116908)
In my opinion it's impossible for a small group of people/ politicians to determine what's good for 445 million people.
Re:Messaging and chat control by bondarchuk on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:24AM (#28116450)
Mathematically it's not more difficult to determine the majority vote among 400 million people, than among 10 million. What would prevent it from working for you?
Re:Messaging and chat control by tchalla on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:44AM (#28116714)
> it's not more difficult to determine the majority vote among 400 million people

Democracy is not majority voting.

Re:Messaging and chat control by thegrimmest on Monday August 09, 2021 @11:01AM (#28117785)
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

Basically it is. You don't need representatives to be democratic.

Re:Messaging and chat control by effie on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:31AM (#28116533)
It could work, just do referendum in every country and then implement the result. It would require that people in power in all countries wanted to give power to their people, and implemented it securely. Which is why it won't happen.
Re:Messaging and chat control by herbst on Monday August 09, 2021 @09:25AM (#28116465)
Yes? Any data for that?
Re:Messaging and chat control by loriverkutya on Monday August 09, 2021 @04:26PM (#28121942)
No direct democracy existed in known history with 445 million people.