Did you try microg? It's dead simple to install (they publish builds of lineage+microg for any device which has an official lineage build), works out of the box, and I haven't had any compatibility issues.

> I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapps.org added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly).

I think you have misunderstood what "opengapps" is. Despite the name, it's just a zip that installs Google services and apps (Google framework, play store, etc)

I think they meant that when they ran Google's automatic import tool it reinstalled all the forcefully installed Google apps from the old phone. The difference with lineageos though is that you can uninstall them afterwards.

Having developer for Android, I can tell you that Google pushes their libraries hard and make that as default in tutorials, docs etc so most developers end of depending on play services without realizing that is only one of the many options.

This is done by design to lock developers in and by proxy, lock users to Google flavored Android OS

You can try lineage with MicroG[0][1], it replaces Google services. If you want stores there is the F-Droid store for FOSS app or Aurora Store if you want casual apps.

YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe and these days I'm trying Organic Maps (a layer for OSM with nav and offline maps) to replace Google Maps.

[0] : https://microg.org/ [1] : https://lineage.microg.org/

Does WhatsApp still work? I care about privacy and degoogling but I'm not yet quite ready to abandon my social network over it. Currently I use lineageos with the micro Google apps bundle which provides the real Play Store services and WhatsApp still works. I'd be happy to use the replacement if that was still the case.

EDIT: for clarity, by "micro Google apps bundle" I mean the opengapps [1] micro variant.

[1] https://opengapps.org/

I use LineageOS+microG and practically all apps not made by Google (WhatsApp, Spotify, PayTM) work as they should. Even for some Google apps, there are good alternatives like YouTube Vanced etc.

Good to know, thanks! I plan to reinstall LineageOS since I stupidly relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone. I'll try out microG this time!

> relocked my bootloader last time and can't upgrade without wiping the phone

That doesn't sound right.

LineageOS isn't designed to be used with a locked bootloader. Most devices supported by LineageOS don't support relocking the bootloader with a custom key, and for the devices that do support it (mainly Google and OnePlus phones), it's not recommended to do this on LineageOS.

FAQ on using LineageOS with a locked bootloader: https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/n7yo7u/a_discuss...

Some Android distros, including CalyxOS, are only intended to be used with a locked bootloader, and support over-the-air upgrades without needing it to be unlocked.

Sounds right to me. Unlocking your bootloader wipes storage.

WhatsApp allows you to download an APK from their website. It works without Google Play dependencies.

Yes I believe it does (I switched to Signal years ago and didn't try WhatsApp for a long time). Many proprietary apps runs great even the ones depending on Google Services.

Youtube app can be replaced with Firefox

Vance gives you an audio-only option, which is nice.

NewPipe also has an audio-only option. Unlike YouTube Vanced (a mod of the original YouTube app), NewPipe is open source and supports video downloading. I think the main advantages of Vanced over NewPipe are the SponsorBlock integration and the ability to log in to a Google account (if that's what you're looking for).

I've been very happy with this fork of newpipe that has sponsorblock built-in (it's been kept up to date with upstream so far): https://github.com/polymorphicshade/NewPipe

It started with this rejected PR: https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/pull/3205

The sponsorblock faith is also available through fdroid

How do you play Youtube clips audio-only with NewPipe?

On the video view, the "Background" button with the headphones icon plays the audio only. You can also hold the button to add the clip to your queue.

I use Firefox for YouTube with the following add-ons:

1. uBlock Origin 2. Video Background Play Fix add-on

This allows me to use YouTube as a background playback music player.

I tried both, Firefox with ublock and Video Background Play Fix extensions (as someone else pointed out too) is great. But I ended up using NewPipe because I feel it's has a better user experience than the mobile version of the YouTube website (playlist management, audio only, downloading, UI) and it's Open Source.

I still use the Firefox option if newpipe has issues fetching the video (which didn't happened to me for a long time).

It's a preference thing, many options are great.

You can click share on a Youtube video on Firefox and you'll get the option to send it to New Pipe. My only gripe with New Pipe is that it breaks some times and it doesn't have Youtube's recommendations.

Newpipe is a better option.

Or Brave.

How does Organic Maps compare to OsmAnd?

Organic Maps has a better and easier-to-use interface, especially for turn-by-turn navigation while driving.

OsmAnd is much more fully featured, especially if you are using it to contribute data to OpenStreetMap. With OsmAnd Live, you can download hourly updates to OpenStreetMap data, while Organic Maps updates at less frequent intervals. The app supports plugins for additional functionality, including trip recording, Mapillary street view, and various map views (such as nautical and ski views).

There's no harm in having both installed, since they have different strengths.

In OM, we have faster renderer, more compact maps and focus on easier UX for general public. All app’s features are free. And we plan to increase the frequency of map updates, and of course add more features.

Did you guys ever solve the massive TTS problem? I would use Organic Maps if not for this. It's a bit of a safety concern when you need to look at the map all the time.

OsmAnd is a more fully featured solution for maps.

I agree that OsmAnd is a better option for public transportation and navigation, however, I found that Organic Maps is better at showing stuffs like restaurants/shops etc and more reactive (smoothness, quick to show the map).

I used OsmAnd for quite a long time and just wanted to give Organic Maps a try to see other alternatives. Both are quite promising as replacing Google maps IMO.

> YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe

I'm using SmartTubeNext. It's great. Haven't tried NewPipe, anyone have a comparison?

SmartTubeNext's interface (which enforces landscape mode) is optimized for Android TV, while NewPipe's interface feels more at home on an Android phone or tablet.

Don't you think it is kind of absurd that you have to buy a device from Google to degooglify it as CalyxOS does not support other devices. How difficult would it be to actually port it to a device already supported e.g. by lineage?

The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot.

Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regarding security.

CalyxOS and GrapheneOS are the only real options (because they support relockable bootloaders) if you dont want to use Googles Android.

There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that or they just move on quickly.

MicroG is another really unstable experience. Google bought KaiOS and will buy the next KaiOS too. They moved and continue moving features to their proprietary castle. There's just no way you can win this fight against Google.

Long term the only solution is by some miracle a FOSS phone gets enough popularity for developers to want to make apps for it. I doubt it. My solution is unfortunately using two separates phones. Android and a FOSS one.

Privacy Guard) I was the one who purposely removed it. I spent days ( if not weeks ) trying to get it working properly ( read, it never worked properly and causes many issues we still have tickets for ) futhermore Google basically rewrote the full stack once again, while introducing the, now publicly available in 12, permission hub that somehow gave a better view of permissions and easy access to remove them. We know it removed some more granular ops, but it wasn't worth the effort.

SafetyNet) Nothing can legally pass it unless Google certifies it, we can't do much, only Google can enforce it to be used only for security related reasons

Bribing) I wish I got a single cent from any of the OEM I worked on, name it, Motorola, Asus, Huawei, OnePlus, Xiaomi. Not once they threatened us to stop working on their devices, and at the same time didn't help at all ( the only outsider is Asus that is willingly to help ) We simply can't continue supporting every device that enters the door, we don't have any real way to improve it, everyone is doing it voluntarily with no expectation, and so do we as project directors.

PS: I'm one of the directors.

Thank you for your (sadly to often undeappreciated but still immensly useful to many people) work.

>Privacy Guard) I was the one who purposely removed it.

I know that but it was the main selling point of the ROM for me. Also that I didn't even need a firewall because you could block network access.

>SafetyNet

I was commenting from the POV of a user who needs apps that demand SafetyNet access. You're right.

>Bribing

I was talking about ROM developers on e.g. XDA, not LineageOS the "company".

1) You can still block network via a native firewall ( it's in app settings ), currently the only issue is that network via VPN bypass the toggle.

3) Never heard of this happening, and I've heard a lot of stuff.

I don't think anyone is especially happy about the LineageOS shortcomings you point out, but that's why people are working on supporting the mainstream Linux stack on existing hardware.

The LineageOS folks have a very difficult job to do, they must keep up with developments in AOSP while supporting dozens of existing hardware models, each with its own "exciting" quirks. Is it really any wonder that some hardware gets dropped from official support? Usually that just means bugs have turned up which would make LineageOS not fully usable on the hardware, and they don't have the volunteer manpower to address them.

Complaining about SafetyNet and microG is even less understandable, as these will always amount to unsupported hacks and we don't really need them for a usable device. Just get your apps from F-Droid, and you won't have to care about either.

I had not noticed that Lineage dropped PrivacyGuard. Damn, there really is no choice these days.

Lineage is also so frigging annoying how they just drop old phones. They won't even provide the last good build or previous builds. Really bad thinking over there in general I guess.

:(

They do provide source for all devices, which you can just compile yourself. PrivacyGuard was dropped in order to provide compatibility with a loosely-equivalent solution that's included in AOSP, hence in most custom ROMs. Unfortunately, this also means that the supported feature set has regressed, and getting back to parity will take some effort.

What’s your FOSS phone?

If you care about verified boot, you can let your phone boot in fastboot mode and issue a "fastboot boot" command from a trusted device. Combine that with plain FDE, and it's as secure as anything Qualcomm will support out of the box.

!

I disagree. LineageOS has a legitimate use case, being able to easily tinker with the device. It's certainly not as private or secure, and that doesn't make it a bad option depending on someone's use for it.

CalyxOS includes microG which supports some of the most popular APIs. Which apps did you have issues with?

Details would be very helpful. Any incompatibilities with microG can be reported to its GitHub repo:

https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues

>If I didn't need so many Google-tied apps I would pick this as my phone OS for basic stuff like messaging and browsing.

In case I run into a similar issue as you - what turned out to be Google-tied apps you weren't able to do without?

I had nearly the exact same experience.

im sure your looking at stuff like fdroid. there are definitely sacrifices that have to be made but there are quite a few alternatives to the more popular stuff.