News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by withinboredom on Thursday August 05, 2021 @05:27PM (#28080108)
I don’t think anyone is arguing that making it harder to abuse children is a bad thing. It’s what is required to do so that is the bad thing. It’d be like if someone installed microphones all over every house to report on when you admit that you’re guilty to bullying. No one wants bullying, but I doubt you want a microphone recording everything and looking for certain trigger words. Unless you have an Alexa or something, then I guess you probably wouldn’t mind that example.
Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by jcrites on Thursday August 05, 2021 @10:47PM (#28082757)
Alexa and iPhones with Siri enabled, and Android phones, are all continuously listening with their microphones for their wake word, unless you've specifically turned the feature off.

The difference is that the Alexa connects to your wifi, so if you wanted to, you could trivially tell if it's communicating when it shouldn't be. When I worked at Amazon, I was given the impression that the system that handles detecting the wake word was implemented in hardware, and the software system that does the real speech recognition doesn't "wake up" or gain access to the audio channel unless the wake word is detected by that hardware system -- and it's very obvious when you've woken it up (the colored ring lights up, it speaks, etc.)

Echo devices also sit in one room. If you're like most people you take your phone everywhere, which means that if it's spying on you, it could literally have a transcript of every word you spoke the entire day, as well as any people you've been around. To make matters worse, it would be difficult to tell if that was happening. Unless you're an uber-hacker who knows how to root an iPhone, or a radio geek who knows enough to monitor their device's cellular transmissions, good luck figuring out whether Siri is listening to and passing on audio that it shouldn't. The problem is that phones have so many apps and responsibilities -- given that they are essentially full computers -- these days that nonstop data transfer on a wifi network from my phone wouldn't be alarming: it might be backing up pictures to a cloud, or syncing the latest version of apps, etc.

I think the dedicated devices like Echo/Alexa are what you should buy if you're the most privacy-sensitive, since they have zero reason to be uploading to the Internet unless you're actively talking to them, and they have zero reason to be downloading unless they're receiving a software patch, which should be very rare. And because they're on your wifi (not cell) you can monitor their network traffic very easily.

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by trangus_1985 on Friday August 06, 2021 @05:08AM (#28084828)
It's not unreasonable to expect the speech recognition models to be run locally.

As to the wake word point, I agree. I don't think alexa/siri/etc are currently bad or disrespecting privacy. I actually have a smart home with a voice assistant.

However, my smart home is all local mesh network (zwave and zigbee) based through a FOSS bridge that doesn't talk to the internet. All lights are through smart switches, not bulbs. The end result is such that if the voice assistant service ever pisses me off, I can simply disconnect from it.

If you read my comments in this article, I think I come off as a tin foil hat wearing lunatic, to some degree at least.

But actually, I'm not a super privacy paranoid person. Telemetry, voice recognition datasets, etc... I think those are a reasonable price to pay for free stuff! I just want to have my thumb on the scale and a go-bag packed for when/if these services become "evil" ;)

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by chinchilla2020 on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:57PM (#28092048)
You are correct. The model training is pretty intensive and needs to be run remotely in powerful machines.

The final model is just a series of vectors that are typically pretty fast to run on the local machine.

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by adamrt on Thursday August 05, 2021 @05:30PM (#28080161)
Is this a bot comment? Account is two hours old.

You want to not suffer through political memes? And jump to scanning private messages for dissent, by authoritarian governments being okay!?

What?!

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by ursugardaddy on Thursday August 05, 2021 @06:26PM (#28080827)
No, I'm being serious. technology like this could be very beneficial.

there's a good chance that if we continue to improve surveillance law enforcement agencies and justice departments could begin to focus on rehabilitation and growing a kinder world.

right they are like firemen trying to put out fires after the building has been ruined

if it doesn't work we're doomed anyway, so what's the problem?

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by empressplay on Thursday August 05, 2021 @06:50PM (#28081082)
The problem is what you're describing is literal facism?
Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by ursugardaddy on Thursday August 05, 2021 @09:55PM (#28082433)
that's kind of a stretch, but I hope not.

the way the laws go good or bad is going to be up to everyone

Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by browningstreet on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:44AM (#28083722)
You lost me with the last sentence.
Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by DiggyJohnson on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:41PM (#28093612)
Can you speak at all to the negative aspects of this position?
Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by runjake on Thursday August 05, 2021 @05:55PM (#28080474)
Once you give them the power, they'll never willingly hand it back.
Re:Apple's plan to “think different” about encryption opens ... by Lammy on Thursday August 05, 2021 @05:32PM (#28080188)
Helen Lovejoy voice Won't somebody please think of the children‽