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Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by Razengan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:31AM (#28048923)
Most modern how?

Is everything just recently built or actually designed with modern principles in mind that will still feel relevant a decade down the road?

I’m no researcher of any thing but the casual impression I’ve gotten from reading here and there over the years is that South Korea has plenty of problems, social and otherwise, and some of them pretty archaic and morbid (like idols collapsing on stage but nobody helping them)

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:39AM (#28049008)
The trains running in the subways are much newer, cleaner, and wider than the ones in NYC or Tokyo or Paris or London (based on my own observation).

They also continually build out entirely new rapid lines like the Bundang express line which takes you from a suburb of Seoul to the center of Gangnam (a major district) in 15 minutes.

Their buildings are also mostly new. It seems like every decade or two Koreans demolish older buildings and replace them with new ones. Whereas the US and Japan seem more often to keep old buildings around for much longer (and don't clean them).

The cars on the street in Seoul were also newer than the ones I saw in Japan (although similar in age to NYC). For example the taxis in Japan look like 80s BMWs. They look very cool for that reason but also seem pretty old.

Finally in Japan there's a lot still done by cash and weird single-purpose ticket machines. It would be a hardware hackers dream because of the variety and number of ticketing machines everywhere.

But in contrast Korea has gone almost totally cashless everywhere or so it seems. You just "tap" with your phone. The US is getting there, and maybe Japan is now too since it's been a few years since I was last there.

I wrote a bit more about this a while ago (and included pics) here: https://notes.eatonphil.com/on-nyc-tokyo-and-seoul.html.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by tsudonym on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @11:28AM (#28050348)
Japan has Apple Pay Suica that worked on my US iPhone, Korea required me to keep a physical T-money card at all times.

This may change like next year but Japan has had a 5 year head start. https://www.imore.com/apple-pay-coming-korea-part-k-new-deal...

Japan has updated their taxis since 2017 - roll out has been slow but I've rode in them multiple times as a tourist since then. https://global.toyota/en/jpntaxi/

I love Seoul for it's nightlife/cheaper restaurants, but I can't help but notice that it once tried to be an urban sprawling American city. It's just not as pedestrian friendly as Japanese cities, and I find myself taking more cabs than I would in Tokyo despite the Seoul metro being world class.

The cheonggyecheong stream used to be a disgusting urban highway and I'm sure there are plenty more. https://www.landscapeperformance.org/case-study-briefs/cheon...

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by ubercore on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @11:29AM (#28050357)
I moved to Norway, been living here for about a month now. I haven't see Norwegian money even once. I think I've seen one ATM. Granted a month is not a lot of time, but it's startlingly cashless.

The only annoying thing so far is that my US based Visa card just can't be processed in some places even if Visa is advertised. When I called Chase to see if it was a security thing, they said they didn't even see the charge attempted, and said there are 2 different kinds of credit processing in Europe? I haven't done any research into that yet, though. Overall, I just bring my phone and pay for everything with my iPhone.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by tallanvor on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @08:35AM (#28060260)
Norway is definitely not cashless and there are plenty of ATMs around. That said, stores have been requesting people not use cash during covid, so that plays a big role. You can't miss the cash registers in stores, though.

If your card is a debit card, you might have to talk to the cashier about specifically setting the reader for a credit card transaction. Debit cards do run through a separate process, and your US card would fail. But keep in mind that the same thing happens with Norwegian cards in the US - debit cards need to be run as credit otherwise they'll fail.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by ubercore on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @08:38AM (#28060288)
It's a Chase credit card, not a debit card. I'm sure it's different everywhere, but in the Stavanger area there aren't many ATMs, and I still don't know what cash looks like!

EDIT: To be more clear, this is coming from the US.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by alephnan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:41AM (#28049023)
> The trains running in the subways are much newer, cleaner, and wider than the ones in NYC or Tokyo or Paris or London (based on my own observation).

One of the complaints I had from my SK friend is that other subway platforms don't have safety walls

> Finally in Japan there's a lot still done by cash and weird single-purpose ticket machines. It would be a hardware hackers dream because of the variety and number of ticketing machines everywhere.

Are they connected to the internet?

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:42AM (#28049033)
I think Tokyo has this too but I agree. It seems insane to go on every other subway in the world that doesn't have this.

For NYC I've read that it's complicated: https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/mta-says-subway-shove-preventi....

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by alephnan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:42AM (#28049041)
> I think Tokyo has this too but I agree.

Yes, but it's not common. I live here. Maybe in certain wards that have more international residents, such as Minato.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:44AM (#28049056)
> Are they connected to the internet?

Sorry I didn't mean that in the sense of "cracking" but just that people who are into hardware would find it awesome that there's so much use of electronic hardware in Japan.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by Razengan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:03AM (#28049302)
So most of those things amount to being “mostly new” and made recently, an advantage which will be lost until they keep replacing and rebuilding them.
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:08AM (#28049356)
Au contraire, it's the _ability_ to make changes and build new things in an existing society that is so impressive. The US (let's say NYC specifically) cannot build a lot of new core infrastructure like fast subways because it's expensive and difficult to get the home owners and community on board.

Seoul the city and metro area are both more populous than NYC. And yet you see them rapidly pivoting to fast new lines like this Bundang line. You see them demolishing old buildings and building new ones. You see them switching their entire payment system to digital-first.

On reflection I think this is mostly enabled because 50M is still a small-ish population and the country is fairly culturally homogenous. Combine that with a desire to compete with their bigger neighbors (Japan, China, the US, etc.).

I think Korea (like smaller countries in Europe) has a pretty unique ability to pivot existing society into new technology.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by andrewzah on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:02AM (#28049284)
"South Korea has plenty of problems, social and otherwise"

So does the US, and Japan, and ... basically every country. Each country is going to have pros and cons. Talking with my Korean friends, their perspective is that the US also has plenty of problems, social and otherwise. Are they wrong? And we've had discussions around e.g. why US cops are going around killing US citizens, etc.

The pros for Korea for me include hospitable people, great food, universal healthcare, and fantastic public transportation (you can get around basically the entire country via bus/metro/trains with a unified T-Money card). I also felt a sense of unity that I don't often feel in the US.

Some cons would include a work culture around working insane hours and compulsory drinking. Those are changing with the current generation though. Schooling is extremely competitive since everyone is trying to get into a handful of colleges in order to have career prospects with the large conglomerations. And having to worry about the air quality index is annoying from my US perspective.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by alephnan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:40AM (#28049015)
> South Korea has plenty of problems, social

Social problems to what cultural viewpoint?

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:43AM (#28049048)
"Hell Joseon" is one I can think of. The idea is that it's too expensive and competitive to have kids and a successful career/life anymore. It seems (from my totally naive outsider view) that a lot of young Koreans feel very depressed about their options.
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by epicureanideal on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:47AM (#28049105)
So, like the San Francisco Bay Area...
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by eatonphil on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:48AM (#28049119)
But for an entire country.