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Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by totoglazer on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:30AM (#28048906)
Having visited all the countries mentioned within the last few years - definitely agree. Seoul is an incredible, modern city, unlike any other. Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time.

Parts of Amsterdam have that sort of feel, but it’s definitely more mixed. Not crumbling, but old and making do since it’s fine.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by alephnan on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:31AM (#28048915)
> Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time.

Economically, Japan has been in stagnation since the late 80s.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by yorwba on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:53AM (#28049174)
Economically, Japan's GDP per capita (measured in 2010 US$) was 39,240 in 1991 and grew to 49,000 in 2019, a 25% increase. Yes, it's slower growth than before, but slow growth is still growth, not stagnation. For comparison, New Zealand was at 38,345 in 2019: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2020... (also threw in the graph for South Korea)
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by Clewza313 on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @11:32AM (#28050411)
During that time the USD has suffered around 88% inflation measures by CPI, so in real terms that implies they're going backwards.
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by oezi on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @02:05PM (#28052181)
When my parents went to Japan in the eighties they were shocked that coffee in Tokyo was 4 times as expensive as in Germany. When I visited in 2016 I was similarly shocked that a vending machine Coca Cola costs half of what it costs in Germany. Japan's deflation has led the country to be very affordable.
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by spfzero on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @01:48PM (#28052015)
That's inflation in US prices. It may not be transferrable to another country, where various things cost more/less, and rise/fall differently through the years.
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by ekianjo on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:47AM (#28049091)
> stagnating

That's a nice way to put it, it's been actually decreasing clearly over time since 1989, with ups and downs on the way: https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:49AM (#28049126)
What is the y axis?
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by zuminator on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:10AM (#28049384)
That chart is a crude snapshot of the Nikkei 225 from 1990 to 2009. Since then it's rebounded by quite a bit although it's still quite a bit under its Dec 1989 peak. But of course a stock market index isn't the full economy, so I would disagree that this chart by itself constitutes proof that Japan is stagnating.

Chart source: https://mebfaber.com/2009/12/20/japan-the-us-and-the-lost-de...

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by pehtis on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:01AM (#28049281)
It has been in stagnation since the 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan)
Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by fleddr on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @04:33PM (#28053793)
I don't think Amsterdam is what is meant by the Netherlands.

Amsterdam is basically a super old village built in a swamp that it interesting for its history, architecture, culture, and so on. Or for the red light district and weed shops, if you prefer that. It's not a display of infrastructure.

The Netherlands has some of the best developed infrastructure nation-wide: roads, railways, and most famously its massive water management systems, as half the country is below sea level.

It is also very well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight), technically, and socially (hybrid welfare system).

By comparison, many parts of the US feel like a 3rd world country.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by _RPL5_ on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @05:32PM (#28054492)
"well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight)"

I am being a nitpicker here, but I think there is no correlation between country size and level of economic development. Many of the richest polities in the world are quite small. Places like Singapore & HK come to mind.

I think bigger countries, even if they are "1st world," can sometimes look rather rough, because there is a lot of variation between different regions / municipalities / neighborhoods. It can be surreal sometimes, but it is what it is.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by fleddr on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @06:12PM (#28054852)
I should perhaps clarify that it's not just the level of economic development, rather specifically it's scale.

For example, would you expect the Netherlands, smaller than a typical US state, to be the world's #2 food exporter? From a tiny country that is also extremely densely populated?

To produce a number of mega corporations like Unilever, Shell (partly dutch), Philips, Heineken, the like...and this doesn't even begin to describe lesser known companies in extremely heavy transport, water management, mega scale infrastructure.

Combined with the extremely favorable location of being a distribution hub (Rotterdam), indeed similar to Singapore.

So I basically agree, it doesn't require a large country to produce a lot of economic output. Yet I'd still say the food export fact is a crazy one, as you would expect that to very much be surface-related.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by throaway3141593 on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @06:51PM (#28055235)
> Yet I'd still say the food export fact is a crazy one, as you would expect that to very much be surface-related.

I would expect food production to be area-related. Rotterdam is Europe's busiest seaport, and one of the busiest seaports in the world, so I'm not the least bit surprised that the Netherlands is one of the world's top food exporters.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by fleddr on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @07:28PM (#28055519)
Perhaps you mean to imply that the bulk of this export is just throughput or transport. A lot of it is real produce, coming from the country itself:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/holland-...

Which of course is surface-related, so the remarkable/surprising fact is the intensity of it, and the stunning yields.

"Feeding the world" from a very small surface and with very little human labor is quite a marvel. I think any farmer, from any other country in the world, will have their minds blown when they see it with their own eyes.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by adventured on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @07:05PM (#28055355)
> By comparison, many parts of the US feel like a 3rd world country.

That's because you're comparing small nations to a nation that is better compared to the EU in size and diversity. The EU has dozens of third-world ghetto zones and the bottom 10% of the EU is exceptionally poor by first world standards.

The poorest areas of France also look like and function like the third-world, the quasi ghettos on the outskirts of eg Paris. It's more rare for large nations to not suffer from such poverty problems, and few accomplish that (Germany and Japan get close).

The largest population nations: Russia, Brazil, Indonesia, China, India, US, Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Mexico

Do I need to point out the condition of the bottom 1/3 or 1/2 in most of those nations?

Ever read up on how the bottom quarter in Russia - Europe's largest nation by population - are faring the past decade (it's beyond dire, to put it politely)?

It's a small miracle the US isn't far worse off than it is.

Re:South Korea: The only middle power of its kind by fleddr on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @07:38AM (#28059792)
The topic was "most modern" or advanced nations, not some super vague all-round comparison like you're suggesting.