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Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:39PM (#27986709)
I'm shocked so many people on HN support this. The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)?

I'm sure many people will respond to this saying "they don't need to turn over their full medical history!" but once we turn over a part of it, they will want the next part, and the next, its inevitable. There will always be a safety and security justification.

And what of remote workers? A fully remote employee exposes zero company employees to risk. But they will be mandated to have a vaccine?

Why must we always lose one more right each day?

Edit: Apparently you receive proof of vaccination for the current COVID vaccines in the US. But isn't that still sharing part of your medical history? I have never once been asked a single question about my medical history during a job interview.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by majormajor on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:52PM (#27986965)
Before Obamacare, I did have to fill out my full medical history when starting a job in order to get the employer-provided health plan.

So we've actually improved on that, thankfully! The pro-vacccination crowd doesn't seem like the crowd that's looking to turn back that clock.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by jhauris on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:01PM (#27987162)
That's interesting; I've been getting health insurance through my employers since that time as well, and never had to provide any health history. I thought that was part of the value of a group health plan.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by majormajor on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:10PM (#27987317)
Curious. This was 2010 and 2011 in Texas and California. Looks like the pre-existing condition rules went into effect in 2014, https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/pre-existing-co... - I wasn't denied care because of any, but I assume they used them to price the plan for the employer.

The 2010 plan also had a lifetime max benefit limit, which has now been removed.

Or it could just be some plans are more privacy-invasive than others. But I hope not, it was nice to be able to stop filling out those forms.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by yosefjaved1 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:56PM (#27987042)
An employer requiring vaccinations prior to employment isn't unheard of in the US. It has been going on for several decades for workers in the education and healthcare industry as some of them have had to get vaccinated for chickenpox, measle, mumps, rubella, the flu, and other viruses as a requirement for employment at their respective organizations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3346210001

Also, what would be the next part after this? We would want to first evaluate that before allowing them access to it.

As for remote workers, I think that is a legitimate point and something companies should consider.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:48PM (#27986866)
Relevant vaccination as a condition of work is not a new thing; what is different with the Google policy is:

(1) It is not clearly a condition of employment, as remote work remains available, generally til mod October and individually beyond that.

(2) The work condition to which it is relevant is “in office work” because of the still-ongoing pandemic, which has not historically been a work condition requiring vaccination.

(3) The vaccines involved are under Emergency Use Authorizations, not generally approved.

To the extent that #2 and #3 might otherwise make the policy questionable, I think as long as #1 is still the case there's not much real ground for that.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by wffurr on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:43PM (#27986778)
Literally the first line of the article: “ Google announced Wednesday it would require all in-office workers and visitors to be vaccinated”

Maybe click on it and read it before flying off on the handle?

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:44PM (#27986794)
I'm calling it now, they will require all employees to have this, remote or not.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by wffurr on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:54PM (#27986997)
…but why? Why would they? And why would you think so?

I think you’ve already decided what to believe and are just looking for ways to justify it. You’ve just got to support this “anti-freedom” narrative somehow for whatever mysterious reason that’s important to your ego and sense of self.

I don’t get it.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by yupper32 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:56PM (#27987023)
For what reason? Arbitrary control?

Why does the right think that every government mandate that they don't understand (masks are the big one) are just about arbitrary control over people? It seems like a very common theme.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by Covzire on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:10PM (#27987325)
Because people are rightfully hesitant to believe anything suspected liars tell them they need to do. The science is far from settled and Google banning doctors for discussing amongst themselves is as big of a red flag as can possibly exist.

If you ask most people on the right how the virus has affected them, their friends or family, they'll tell you the lockdowns and mandates have been 100x more harmful to their entire community, family and friends than the virus has been. This is an extremely common response.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:05PM (#27987240)
Why would they do it?

They will do it because they are trying to save lives. They think they are doing harm by allowing people NOT to take the vaccine. After all, how many people will die by unvaccinated people spreading the disease? They have a duty to save other humans! That is what I think they believe.

My problem is that this is an overstep. They should stay in their lane, rather than mandating the health of their workers. If someone at Google died from drunk driving, would it be fair to ban alcohol? Of course not.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by yupper32 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:10PM (#27990409)
There's no reason to think they'll do this, though. You're just wildly speculating. The much more likely scenario is that they say "find a remote position at the company or leave".

And they're not so much "mandating the health of their workers", they're mandating that their workers don't harm other workers.

> If someone at Google died from drunk driving, would it be fair to ban alcohol?

If enough people got wasted at work and hurt other employees as a result, they'd probably think about limiting alcohol at events at the office. That's a closer example to this vaccination requirement.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by dagsdgfhdgdj on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @03:27PM (#27988540)
> If someone at Google died from drunk driving, would it be fair to ban alcohol? Of course not.

I would expect Google to ban alcohol consumption at work if this causes safety hazards. So the answer is yes.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by PragmaticPulp on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:41PM (#27986733)
> The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)?

When you're vaccinated, you receive a small official card with the vaccination details. In the United States, the vaccines are free.

This has nothing to do with your general medical history or medical records.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:43PM (#27986785)
Well thanks for the downvote. But isn't that card part of your medical history? What if they need proof you are vaccinated against measles? After all, its a proven vaccine...
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by BHSPitMonkey on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:58PM (#27987097)
> But isn't that card part of your medical history?

It's the narrowest, most specific data point possible to establish that you won't put other innocent people in the building at risk of a new outbreak.

> What if they do other things after this thing?

What if dogs had antlers? What if sidewalks were made of cheese?

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:29PM (#27987645)
A dog is not related to antlers. But proof of vaccination is related to vaccination history.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by fabrice_d on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:45PM (#27986806)
That could be done by not giving your medical history. Every vaccinated person should be delivered a proof of vaccination cryptographically signed by official authorities (eg. CDC in the US), with nothing more that "yes, Bob - ssn XXX - is fully vaccinated". Simple to verify by employers.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by lanternfish on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:51PM (#27986955)
'Google announced Wednesday it would require all in-office workers'

First sentence of the article.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by TulliusCicero on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:43PM (#27986789)
You don't have the right to put others at risk of harm. That's why, at least in the US, vaccinations are already usually mandatory for entering public school.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:48PM (#27986883)
We do have that right. Take cars for example, we drive extremely dangerous machines down the road that kill thousands each year. They also put out dangerous pollutants that kill many people. We all live in a world where there is a give and take. It is only recently that people decided we have a right to live risk-free.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by TulliusCicero on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:51PM (#27986949)
No, you don't. We do accept some risks, but in the case of cars, there are quite a few mandatory things involved designed to limit the risk: it's illegal to drive without a license, illegal to drive while drunk, cars are required to have various safety features to be street-legal, etc.

Same principle here. Vaccines don't completely eliminate the risk of danger from covid, they only reduce it, just like the car regulations.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:55PM (#27987006)
I can get a job without a car. How soon until I can't get a job without modifying my body?
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by BHSPitMonkey on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:01PM (#27987148)
Some jobs require you to have a car (and a valid license, and an insurance policy). Others don't.

Some jobs require you to work in close proximity with other people. Others don't.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:32PM (#27987698)
These are good points. I suppose we will see how many other employers force their employees to be vaccinated, even if they are not in close proximity.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by TulliusCicero on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:02PM (#27987177)
Some jobs actually do require a car, either explicitly or because no other form of transportation would be practical for an area.

Since higher vaccination rates protect other people, I'm hopeful that vaccines become as mandatory as possible. That this bothers anti-vaxxers doesn't bother me, because why should it? I'm not more bothered by this than the vaccine requirement to enter public schools for kids.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:30PM (#27987655)
I did not say any job, I said "a" job. Yes vaccinations will protect other people. Banning alcohol would protect many people, but its a violation of a person's rights to ban it.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by TulliusCicero on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:49PM (#27987970)
Okay, and? Yes, we don't have rules for every single possibly protective thing, but we do have rules for a lot of them.

Your line of reasoning could also be used against seat belt laws or building codes: why have those for public safety if we don't ban alcohol?

edit: also, while I don't support banning alcohol, it wouldn't be a violation of a person's basic rights to ban it. That used to be the law of the land in the US, and even today there are still some dry counties (alcohol cannot be sold).

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by pb7 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:38PM (#27987805)
>its a violation of a person's rights to ban it

It's literally not. Have you heard of the Prohibition?

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @03:13PM (#27988329)
Yes, and it was repealed by the 21st amendment. This was done because it is a violation of peoples' rights.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by pb7 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @03:18PM (#27988402)
>This was done because it is a violation of peoples' rights.

That’s not why but which rights do you think it violated exactly? There still exist dry counties in the US.

Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by pb7 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:04PM (#27987210)
Probably around the same time you can shit yourself and walk around the office like that all day everyday.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by rolobio on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:34PM (#27987733)
If I shit myself, I would know about it and can do something about it. If I have a virus, but no symptoms, how can I prevent spreading?
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by pb7 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:37PM (#27987795)
You know about COVID and can do something about not spreading it: get vaccinated.
Re:Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines by some-guy on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @02:07PM (#27987260)
My enlarged prostate doesn't pose a risk to my co-workers--my immunization history does. There's a big difference.