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Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by mtalantikite on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:26PM (#27966248)
The first thing that came to mind when hearing they were looking for a blockchain lead was they were hiring for an AWS service. Why would a company that operates famously on thin margins (not the AWS side of things) accept a "currency" that could take a 7% price swing in a day.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by neuronexmachina on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:49PM (#27966444)
AWS's QLDB and Managed Blockchain have been in GA since 2019: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-amazon-managed-blockcha...
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by judge2020 on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:00PM (#27966551)
I don't see how that matters in the sense of Amazon coming close to accepting another form of payment. Just because they have a team that specializes in managing hosted merkle trees doesn't mean they finally closed the gap preventing them from sending and receiving BTC for physical products.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dcolkitt on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:47PM (#27966946)
You just plug the payment backend into the mega deep liquidity pools in DeFi and hedge out in real-time. It’s actually significantly easier than dealing with foreign currency in the traditional banking system.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by smt88 on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:39PM (#27967297)
Last I checked, all DeFi activity could be measured in billions of USD. That's not "mega deep". It's barely a blip in the global financial system. It's not even enough for a few months of Amazon revenue.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by yourabstraction on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:15PM (#27967145)
I think the job posting was listed as being in the payments division though.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by orf on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:00PM (#27966548)
Amazon accepts a lot of currencies. Is BC the only one that swings?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by lmm on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:08PM (#27967482)
I wouldn't be surprised if it's significantly more volatile than any currency that Amazon accepts.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by xwdv on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:33PM (#27966297)
For speculation.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by stingraycharles on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:43PM (#27966389)
Wouldn’t they be able to do that without integrating Bitcoin as a payment gateway?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by anyfoo on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:44PM (#27966405)
Yeah. If they were interested in speculating using Bitcoin, they would just buy Bitcoin, instead of essentially letting their end customers decide, wouldn't they?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by hhmc on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:59PM (#27966539)
Unless you pull the tesla trick of accepting payment in BTC but reserving the right to refund in either BTC or USD -- granting yourself a soft option on BTCUSD. Altough surely not worth the effort unless you have a lot of refund flow.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by bouncycastle on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:37PM (#27966337)
you know you can do much more with blockchain tech than just payments?

My hunch is that they could be building an NFT marketplace. It makes sense.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by mtalantikite on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:42PM (#27966382)
If they're getting into NFT it's to sell shovels to the speculators.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by bouncycastle on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:59PM (#27967426)
If you think about it, then this fits Amazons's existing business exactly: To provide a marketplace for people who buy things at cost prices and then sell them for a higher price.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by davidcbc on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:35PM (#27967622)
If they really want to lean into the reputation they are getting for being a platform for counterfeits and scams then NFTs are the next logical step
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by bouncycastle on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:18PM (#27968248)
counterfeits on Amazon? Are you kidding me? sarcastic smile

Seriously though, it's easy to verify if a NFT is genuine - one of the features of Blockchain tech.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by jazzyjackson on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @08:43AM (#27971722)
I don’t know what you mean by genuine, non-counterfeit?

You can check that a token exists on chain, but that tells you nothing about whether the person who issued the token owns the copyright to the work. Ie, no guarantees of authenticity.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by cwkoss on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:06PM (#27966587)
If e-book and amazon video/music licenses were portable, resellable AND platform agnostic (can use my license and exercise it with a different content host to certify I am allowed to download that content), I would buy a bunch of them.

I currently have no reason to want to own an NFT, and never "buy" content from amazon because it is locked to my account and has no real permanence.

This would certainly be a killer app for NFTs, but I doubt Amazon is willing to cede enough control to actually do this.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by smt88 on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:41PM (#27967308)
NFTs as a decentralized DRM scheme would have the same weaknesses as traditional DRM systems. Centralization is also literally the entire point of DRM, so no one has an incentive to try to make it work.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by matheusmoreira on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:06PM (#27967072)
That's amazing. If intellectual property licensing worked like this, it would be a lot more bearable.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by cwkoss on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:52PM (#27967378)
Someone is going to make a hundred billion dollar business doing this.

Those first few years kissing the asses of IP conglomerates enough to get them to try it will be horrible, and then when you prove success competition will be fierce as there is no moat: not a business I would want to start. But I'd certainly be a customer.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by acdha on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:24PM (#27966749)
Less Amazon than the content owners: NFTs give them no additional revenue, still have the same hosting costs, and dramatically increase the odds of a compromise leaking their material permanently.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by cwkoss on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:28PM (#27967226)
> NFTs give them no additional revenue

Portable digital assets could be priced higher and would have more demand.

> still have the same hosting costs

Do content owners have to pay amazon hosting costs? I thought that was included in their platform fee.

> dramatically increase the odds of a compromise leaking their material permanently

The odds of leak are 100% already, so this isn't true.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by acdha on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:50PM (#27967356)
Right now, a company gives their movie to a reseller and gets a fraction of a sale price. The reseller pays for hosting out of their percentage.

NFTs don’t help with storage because blockchains are both inefficient and global so you still need to pay someone to host the actual media files and only give them to people with valid keys.

Worse from a rights-holder’s perspective, blockchains don’t allow you to remove content. That means that any time something gets compromised, you have valid keys floating around with no way to remove them. It’s true that leaks happen anyway but there are some key differences: these are always the best quality and they look like legitimate usage so it’s harder to block or track the way they go after torrent users. Anything which reduces risk will increase the number of people bootlegging by a hefty margin.

You can do things like, say, having the key in the blockchain be what you use to request a temporary key with lots of rate-limiting but if you’re building the infrastructure for a separate login and distribution system anyway, it comes back to the question of what benefit you get from the extra cost and risk of using NFTs rather than just using that system. If the answer isn’t “a lot more money”, nobody is going to jump on a system which is less reliable and harder to use.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by paxys on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:12PM (#27966647)
While that would be amazing to have, the problem isn't lack of technology (or more specifically blockchain technology). Amazon could very easily set up a marketplace to facilitate transfer of ebooks, movies and more to other accounts. They could also issue "tokens" for redemption on other platforms. All this is possible with good old fashioned CRUD.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by cwkoss on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:41PM (#27966898)
Hmm, I would value these more if they weren't managed within an amazon-controlled database, but you're right that they could offer a lot of the value of this with a centralized solution if they wanted to.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by bouncycastle on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:27PM (#27968299)
Just replying to myself. I find it amusing to be downvoted so much, yet sparking so much discussion. It seems like NFTs evoke strong reactions from both pro and anti camps. Obviously they are an extremely disruptive tech, especially in the way we view ownership and also they derail the whole "cryptocurrencies are not useful for anything" argument. So they disrupt not only those against cryptocurrency, but also those who are entrenched in cryptocurrency that does not have the ability to support NFTs
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by SahAssar on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:55PM (#27966508)
Does it really make sense? NFTs have not been proven to be anything except hype (really well selling hype for a while, but nothing but hype nonetheless).
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by smegger001 on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:42PM (#27968376)
NFT's are baseball cards that go away the second the servers storing the actual data go away. sure you have record that you own the token that confers no actual ownership (physical, copyright, or trademark.) setting on the underlying blockchain assuming that blockchain continues to operate but the data itself is still as ephemeral as the server hosting it.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by geofft on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:03PM (#27966565)
NFTs don't exist, though.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by bouncycastle on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:08PM (#27967087)
That's like saying "ownership of intangible goods doesn't exist".
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by geofft on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:45PM (#27967676)
Yes.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by throwslackforce on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:42PM (#27966385)
If more than 51% of BTC mining eventually takes place on machines rented from AWS, could Bezos flip a switch and take control of the blockchain (e.g. by shutting down the miners running on the AWS hardware, and rebooting it all with miners he controls?)
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by vbezhenar on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:51PM (#27966463)
51% miners have limited control over blockchain. They can censor blockchain by not allowing some transactions (and forking whenever other miner tries to add those transactons). They can undo some transactions by making a fork before that transaction has happened and eventually forcing the world to switch to their chain.

All those cases are highly visible. I don't know what will happen if someone will attempt to force-fork blockchain. But I highly doubt that 51% miners could monetize that power.

Another point: bitcoin miners are using ASICs, not GPU or CPU. Those ASICs are useless bricks outside of bitcoin mining. If bitcoin miners will collapse bitcoin, they'll lose their ASICs investments. AWS can sell their CPUs to anyone, but mining bitcoin on their CPUs is pointless. To mine bitcoin, you need to buy or build ASICs. And you need bitcoin to stay afloat to return investments from those ASICs.

The only danger is if some actor have lot of money (e.g. US government) and want to kill bitcoin. They can rent some fabs, build lots of ASICs and wreak havoc. They'll spend a lot of money, but probably they'll achieve that goal.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by cwkoss on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:32PM (#27966827)
You are almost entirely right, but ASICs can be used to mine other currencies which use the same hashing algorithm.

Bitcoin and a handful of others use SHA256.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by acdha on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:52PM (#27966478)
Nobody is legally mining on AWS - the margins would put you behind everyone with dedicated hardware, not to mention the lack of ASICs.

That said, if that happened, think about what would happen next: there’d be a mass exodus of customers and breach of contract lawsuits, governments would bring charges under anti-hacking laws, and the rest of the community would agree to rewrite history back to the point before that happened. He’d lose orders of magnitude more money than he could possibly gain, especially given Bitcoin’s limited liquidity.

That last part is key: we have no reason to think Bezos is a crook, or willing to break his customer’s trust, but say he has been completely compromised by Dr. Evil. This still makes no sense because nobody _wants_ a bunch of random hashes — they want to buy things. Even if he could commit the theft of the century, there wouldn’t be any place to spend it with enough volume to make it worth as much as Bezos makes every second.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by ipaddr on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:40PM (#27966881)
Exodus of customers? I would bet against that. Flood of contract lawsuits, not likely. Anti-hacking laws used against miners or aws?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by acdha on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:59PM (#27967026)
You don’t think there’d be a trust issue from showing a willingness to make unauthorized changes to your servers? From breaking their public promises about security, many of which are written into contracts?

Now think carefully about the implications of doing that to steal money. It’s not like they’re hypothetically doing that to hot fix a critical security issue - it’d literally be to profit from betraying their customers’ trust!

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by mtalantikite on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:44PM (#27966409)
I doubt they're getting into mining, their AWS product is in hosted ledgers and things like that: https://aws.amazon.com/blockchain/
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by everfree on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:54PM (#27966490)
AWS does not rent out bitcoin mining rigs and really has no incentive to. To mine at a profit requires expensive, extremely specialized single-purpose hardware that can only be used for bitcoin mining and can't be re-used for anything else.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by graeme on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:45PM (#27966412)
Not without destroying trust in AWS
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by mtalantikite on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:46PM (#27966417)
Yeah, the idea that Jeff Bezos is going to pull an exit scam on the entire bitcoin ecosystem is ridiculous. He already has all the money.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by orf on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:59PM (#27966544)
No.