News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by monocasa on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:39PM (#27965835)
Lol, way to play the game I guess. It's not Intel 4nm, but 'Intel 4', which was Intel 7nm and Intel 7nm+ is now Intel 3. Retconning Intel 10nm+ as Intel 7.

Makes you wonder if the same thing with the initial 10nm failures where a lot of management bonuses were tied to a specific number in the release is happening here too, or if it's just them trying to recalibrate those marketing literature when the competition is a node worse for the equivalent nm value.

Edit: It literally says this in the article:

2021 H2, Intel 7: Previously known as 10nm Enhanced Super Fin or 10ESF

2022 H2, Intel 4: Previously known as Intel 7nm.

2023 H2, Intel 3: Previously known as Intel 7+

2024, Intel 20A: Previously known as Intel 5nm.

Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by AtlasBarfed on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:05PM (#27966585)
Dishonesty aside, this hits like a ton of bricks: FOUR YEARS to leadership. Even with Moore's law slowing, that is a loooong time. I remember when Intel had seemingly a two year lead in process, around 65nm I think.

And now, project four years to leadership, and assuming the economics and competition won't respond.

If Moore's Law hits a major wall (it has to ... sometime, right?), then that may be the catch-up.

Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by monocasa on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:11PM (#27966633)
It won't even be leadership. TSMC 3nm is about equivalent to Intel 20A, and is hitting risk production by the end of this year.

It reads to me as sugarcoating the admission that they're continuing to fall behind.

Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by heisenbit on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @06:44AM (#27970874)
It is not clear at all that these games work. In April SemiAccurate already warned:

Intel should not rename their processes

Analysis: An unwinnable fight should not be picked

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2021/04/07/intel-should-not-ren...

Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by IanCutress on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @06:39AM (#27970844)
Intel is moving to GAA on 20A. TSMC is moving to GAA on N2. Just to put that into perspective
Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by thunkshift1 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @03:16PM (#27976357)
4 years is an acceptable timeline. We are not taking about software product roadmaps here. If you consider the amount of time and time and effort it took apple, amazon to come out just with chip designs, this is reasonable. While its true that tsmc “3, 4 nm” are ok track for 2022.. its debatable if that naming means what it actually implies. Also tsmc had priority access to euv solutions this time around.. lets wait and see if Intel can deliver before passing judgement outright.
Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by jimbob45 on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:53PM (#27965960)
Yeah, it’s dishonest, but the consumers of their processors most often look at benchmarks, not nm width. The only people this might actually fool will be casual stock traders.
Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by monocasa on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:58PM (#27966009)
Yeah, I don't blame them that much when tech news always had to be "TSMC 5nm.. essentially equivalent to Intel 7nm" when talking nodes. The numbers have been made up for a while (even on the Intel side).

Some of those numbers are very curious though. Intel has historically had an issue with managers gaming bonus structures and some of this reeks of that too. "We're totally shipping Intel 7 this year (because it's what was 10nm+)"

Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by rrss on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @01:22AM (#27968928)
how is it dishonest? the numbers are basically arbitrary anyway (the only metric even close to these figures is fin width, which is not really a metric of primary interest), and they've chosen to realign to numbers that more closely match comparable TSMC nodes and acknowledge that it doesn't really measure anything by dropping the 'nanometer'.
Re:Intel's Process Roadmap to 2025: with 4nm, 3nm, 20A and 18A? by monocasa on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @01:26AM (#27968946)
Well, they didn't align with TSMC. They end up jumping ahead of TSMC by a node.