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Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by sandworm101 on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:47AM (#27959288)
>> make a living some as coaches or streamers

And in those jobs being good at chess is only part of the equation. You have to be personable, someone that people aspire to. Physical attractiveness is also never a bad thing in the world of streaming. I once chatted with concert violinist. She was not happy about trends in the soloist community. "The moment I saw an exposed midrift in a concert hall, I knew I would never be a soloist."

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by busyant on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:48AM (#27960921)
> Physical attractiveness is also never a bad thing

I used to work with an ex-military guy (extremely bright, hard working, excellent leader, etc. etc.).

He was about 64 inches (1.63 meters) tall, balding, and not the handsomest fella. He told me point blank: "I was never going to become a general or achieve any other extremely high rank simply because I didn't have 'the look' or physical stature of a general."

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by sandworm101 on Monday July 26, 2021 @01:38PM (#27962425)
Photos have been a big part of promotions in the US armed forces. There has been pushback in recent years, iirc the marines abandoned photos last year, but you still have to "look the part" and attach headshots to many promotion applications. I've seen people pay actual money ($$$) for professional photographers to get an edge over their peers.

Compare Canada where, beyond not having photos, even gender-based pronouns have been removed from performance reports in order that reviewers not risk gender bias.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by paulddraper on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:58PM (#27964578)
When I was a contractor (Air Force) in 2000s, I certainly didn't notice a looks difference.

If there was one, there was at least a ton of exceptions to the rule, male and female.

EDIT: Though I didn't work with any generals. There are only several hundred U.S. generals, and that number is capped.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by epivosism on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:22PM (#27964084)
How do descriptions of physical attributes work? Possibly by just giving the candidate's percentile rank by sex?

That would be gender-blind but also ignores the fact that absolute scale actually matters in war sometimes - running speed, ability to lift and load heavy tank shells for a few hours etc.

One might argue that actual physical strength doesn't matter much. One way to check this claim would be to look at recently granted medals for valor, and see how many of them are related to absolute (not relative) physical prowess.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by CydeWeys on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:30PM (#27964205)
Physical attributes are not particularly important wrt promotions in the military; you just need to pass that baseline fitness bar to not be flunked out on medical.

Indeed, the higher up you go, the more your job becomes about leading and the less it becomes about individual feats of strength. I think you're thinking about the military a little bit wrong here -- this isn't the Roman era (when centurions led from the front and had to be legitimate physical badasses). Being higher up in the military nowadays is a lot more akin to being a paper pusher director at a company.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by sandworm101 on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:53PM (#27966479)
>> baseline fitness bar to not be flunked out on medical.

Medical and fitness are different things. Lots of people can pass the fitness tests but still flunk out for medical reasons. Diabetics. People who get cancer. Failing eyesight. Sever allergies. It is very possible to ace the fitness tests while still failing the medical.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by Barrin92 on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:58PM (#27968144)
I'm not so sure. Attractiveness is a good quality if you want a claim to power through networking, but it's not the only way.

Take Thatcher or Merkel. Both women for whom this arguably matters even more, not attractive, and not even coming from a background that lends itself naturally to climbing hierarchies. Kohl, Merkel's mentor used to often refer to her as his "Mädchen", ('girl', but diminutive, only used for children) and she basically back-stabbed him and took control of the entire party.

There's definitely ways for unattractive or more generally, people who nobody expects to rise to power to do exactly that.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by stainforth on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @01:58PM (#27975455)
What's the general story about Merkel's rise?
Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by Barrin92 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @09:07PM (#27979358)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/01/quiet-german

This New Yorker profile from a few years ago is a long read but very much worth it if you want to get a overview. The beginning recapitulates a lot about her childhood so you might want to skip that part if you're only interested in her career.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by colmvp on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:20AM (#27959658)
> Physical attractiveness is also never a bad thing in the world of streaming.

That's life in general. Even at my company when choosing photos of people to profile to for recruitment posts on LinkedIn, it's pretty clear they lean towards attractive people.

I also notice that with Company Profile page, where who they show is not really indicative of who comprises the company.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by alasdair_ on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:02PM (#27966039)
>That's life in general. Even at my company when choosing photos of people to profile to for recruitment posts on LinkedIn, it's pretty clear they lean towards attractive people.

There have been several studies on this. Apparently being an attractive woman is a net negative when it comes to being hired by other women (6% fewer callbacks than the same resume with less attractive photo attached in one particular study).

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1705244

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by mikepurvis on Monday July 26, 2021 @12:41PM (#27961629)
I think Alexandra Botez manages this kind of thing well— obviously she's young and attractive, and there's a certain amount of goofing around that goes on (her younger sister is a co-host), but overall the channel is pretty tightly focused on chess games, commentary, etc. And she's certainly a very serious player herself and has specifically spoken out on sexism issues in tournaments and the larger chess community, eg:

https://www.insider.com/how-chess-was-more-sexist-than-its-p...

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by zestyping on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:56PM (#27963673)
I'm curious what would constitute managing well or not well in your opinion. She certainly uses it to her advantage, while nonetheless being a very strong player.
Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by mikepurvis on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:10PM (#27964755)
I'm not a regular follower so I don't have a lot of history to base it on, but based on the streams I've caught, it just seems well balanced— like the presentation is definitely not "sexy" in the way of, like, a hot tub streamer, but it's also not completely locked down and soulless— there's personality and shenanigans in the way of a radio host or commentator, and also a lot of great chess-playing.

Another good example is Xyla Foxlin, who walks a similar line with a YouTube engineering/maker channel and has been very explicit about her approach: "I refuse to “act more like a man” in order to achieve legitimate and respectable success in the professional world. I happen to be someone who embraces her femininity and feels powerful in cute shoes and sparkly makeup, and I don’t see how any of that makes me less of an engineer." [0]

[0]: https://medium.com/1517/beauty-and-the-invisible-beast-c2a8d...

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by Claudus on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:20PM (#27963111)
There is certainly sexism built into the rating system, as woman titles require 200 less Elo points to achieve. https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-to-become-a-chess-gra...
Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by CydeWeys on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:34PM (#27964261)
They're different titles though. Grandmaster (GM) != Woman Grandmaster (WGM). Judit Polgár, for example, peaked at an Elo of over 2,700, so she easily qualified for Grandmaster (requirement of 2,500).

Similarly, a Brigadier General is not the same rank as a General, despite some commonality in word choice between the two ranks.

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by namdnay on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:30PM (#27965035)
Well OK, but it doesn’t explain why there’s a WGM. There isn’t a “woman sergeant” position, and we’d definitely take offense at a company defining separate “senior engineer” and “woman senior engineer” positions.. so why accept the condescension of WGM?
Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by mikepurvis on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:45PM (#27965218)
Not all female players do:

"These titles are sometimes criticized and some female players elect not to take them, preferring to compete for open titles. For example, Grandmaster Judit Polgár, in keeping with her policy of playing only open competitions, never took a women's title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_titles#Women's_titles

Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by argc on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:59PM (#27963716)
If the titles required the same Elo to achieve then there wouldn't be a point to have separate titles. The female-only titles are useful to encourage women to compete imo.
Re:Becoming a Chess Grandmaster by xenocratus on Monday July 26, 2021 @12:46PM (#27961687)
> Physical attractiveness is also never a bad thing in the world of streaming

You mean like this? https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/715141