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Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by Mandelmus on Monday July 26, 2021 @12:21AM (#27955632)
There are so many shops in Berlin where I constantly wonder how the hell they make enough money to even afford the rent.

I suspect that the rapidly rising real estate prices in Berlin will make most of them infeasible soon, but so far Berlin is still relatively cheap compared to other cities of similar political and cultural capital.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by jamil7 on Monday July 26, 2021 @01:57AM (#27956160)
Berlin is a money laundering hotspot of Europe. I think about that too when I walk past some random shop that’s never/rarely open.

They may also be grandfathered into affordable leases and paying less rent than you imagine, although not sure that works as well for commercial leases as it does for residential.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by kzrdude on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:53AM (#27957186)
Small scale money laundering maybe. For the big money look at the property prices in London.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by alex_duf on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:05AM (#27958405)
Serious question. I can see how to launder money in a shop, I'm failing to see how to launder money with property.

Surely you can't buy a £1M property in £20 notes right?

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by maccard on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:04AM (#27959471)
You can pay a £1M mortgage in £20 notes.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by R0b0t1 on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:29AM (#27956673)
Rent used to be very, very low. Area was basically blighted, no? Everybody was moving out of eastern Germany.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by jamil7 on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:42AM (#27956740)
Yeah but it's been sharply rising in the last 10-15 years and I'm not sure that the protections that exist for residential leases in Berlin exist in the same way for commercial. But still quite possible that the rent hasn't adjusted for many of these shops.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by R0b0t1 on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:04AM (#27956876)
Residential and business rent can be disconnected. Isn't that what happened in SF? Massive oversupply of one because they're not interchangeable.

In Kansas City there are some highly gentrified city neighborhoods but then a block or two away a bunch of old warehouse-type factory buildings for rent.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by jamil7 on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:17AM (#27956979)
You could be right, I honestly don't know. The media here tend to mostly cover the residential side of things. You do see stories of businesses like bars and bookshops being forced out when an investor buys a whole building that includes both commercial and residential spaces.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by jillesvangurp on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:52AM (#27957181)
One weird thing with rents Germany is that old contracts have very low rents that barely increase over the years. So, you get this weird dynamic of very old shops and restaurants that have been there for decades paying almost nothing right next to very hip/trendy places that have to pay through their nose for the privilege of being there. Some of the older restaurants get away with this by simply charging less for their food and drinks. Newer places can literally not afford to do so.

Especially West Berlin still has quite a few places that pre-date the fall of the wall 30 years ago. Lately, Charlottenburg (a big neighborhood in the West) has been gentrifying rapidly. So, you get this weird contrast between these old places and very new & trendy things opening right next to them.

You see the same dynamic in East Berlin though large parts of that have been gentrified by now. I live close to the wall memorial on the East side and most of the old shops and restaurants in my area have disappeared over the last 12 years. Mostly the reason is that the business owners hit retirement age and scale down or sell their business. In some cases, a relative takes over but more often than not the place closes and some other business moves in.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by Shmebulock on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:11AM (#27957293)
>One weird thing with rents Germany is that old contracts have very low rents that barely increase over the years

Does it really work that way all over Germany or is it something specific to Berlin?

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by moksly on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:39AM (#27958220)
The insane rent increase is a more “modern” thing in European cities. I put modern in quotes because it still goes back more than 20 years, but in many places rent hasn’t increased much for the people with old leases.

In some buildings the owners have found ways around the rules, like selling the building to investment funds with enough money to tear it down and build a new one. Or maybe made enough renovations to make larger rent increases legal, but some building owners seem content to just get the steady income without doing much about it.

The big rent increases mainly come from all the new or completely renovated buildings and those are mostly owned by large investment companies.

I personally hope we eventually get enough grip on our cities to tell those investors who are foreign to go fuck themselves and seize their buildings, but it’ll probably take some time until we get to that point. Or maybe it won’t, around 30% of the population supports it or something similar.

Yes, yes, I know this is communism and will bleh bleh bleh, but we can’t keep letting the wealthy herd the poor around like this and expect our society to remain positive about our democratic ideals.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by imtringued on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:35AM (#27959154)
Well, you either tax the land to reduce its value to investors or you don't let people own land in the first place.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by R0b0t1 on Monday July 26, 2021 @01:52PM (#27962650)
No, you can prevent certain types of land ownership. Which is the second one, but it's more nuanced than "don't let people own land."

The real issue I think is that modern wages can't support the cost of new construction. If they could people would simply build more houses themselves.

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by corpdrone2021 on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:10AM (#27958912)
I'm not sure it's fair to call telling foreign investors that they're not welcome to use your country as a rent farm is fairly called "communism." Until the rise of neo-liberalism that seemed to be a pretty core part of all economic populism on both the left and right.
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by turbinerneiter on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:37AM (#27957434)
It is more extreme in Berlin, but I think in general the spread between new rent and old rent is very high.

I.e. in Munich, the average rent per square meter is about 10€, while the average for new offers is almost 17€.

This is a problem because nobody is moving out of their places, so people get stuck in the wrong flat. Old people won't leave their too big places after their kids left, young people with kids live in places that are to small.

(No shade thrown at the old people, I'd also not want to leave the place I lived in for so long. But on a bigger scale, it's an issue.)

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by mft_ on Monday July 26, 2021 @05:40AM (#27957456)
I believe Switzerland has a similar approach.

Anecdata #1: a long-established barber shop paying a fifth of the rent that the very similar empty unit next door was advertised for.

Anecdata #2: just too many ‘businesses’ which offered little of interest and which never seemed to have any customers; some shops even only opened for a fraction of the year (eg those selling Fasnacht regalia).

Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by snovv_crash on Saturday July 31, 2021 @05:27AM (#28016654)
Switzerland also has the 'hobby-business' problem, where a rich housewife wants to have a fashion brand or something similar. Walk through Niederdorf in Zurich for an example of what happens when this takes over...
Re:The Hyper-Specialist Shops of Berlin (2019) by odiroot on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:12AM (#27958932)
> There are so many shops in Berlin where I constantly wonder how the hell they make enough money to even afford the rent.

Some of them are just money-laundering fronts for organised crime.