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Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by wrycoder on Sunday July 25, 2021 @03:39PM (#27952253)
Every time this comes up, someone shows up to say it doesn’t matter what exercise program you follow. That’s not correct.

There’s a big difference between someone lifting weights somewhere near their genetic capacity and someone spending many hours per week racking up long, slow distance on the road. Or someone spending a few hours waving one pound dumbbells around.

If you want to be able to get out of your chair at 95 and not develop osteoporosis, you need to engage in load bearing exercise. If you want to add cardio to that - do it faster. You’ll get your HR to 80%, no problem.

I’m 80. I lift about twice a week for about 90 min each time. On the off days, I walk for an hour, usually over hills, since walking on the flat doesn’t get my HR up enough, and I don’t want to stress my knees by jogging.

I think the lady looks great, probably a lot better than she would if she was a runner.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by lr4444lr on Sunday July 25, 2021 @05:05PM (#27952910)
Can't upvote this enough. Also, you don't need to wait until old age to see that this is true. I am half your age and even though I thought I was "fit", chronic pain from years of sitting jobs revealed when I got to physical therapy that I had weaknesses in multiple muscles, many of which absolutely needed to be worked directly in order to reduce the pain, and my gym and calisthenics habits weren't doing it. Our peak species health as hunter/gatherers had us doing a wide variety of strength maintaining movements that physiology and rehab medicine is only just starting to understand. It's unbelievable for example how there are guys who can squat over 250 lbs. deeply but can't do a single one legged squat even near the same depth. Glad I got my wake up call before I got too old to do much about it.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by blunte on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:29PM (#27952643)
Relative to TFA, _any_ consistent movement and activity is a net gain. In that perspective, it really does not matter what program you follow as long as it gets you moving.

This wasn't about optimal. If you ask me personally what I think optimal is, I think it's 5 sets of 5 with big weights, squats deads and bench. Mix in some other cardio activity 1-2 times a week, and you'll be a relative superhero.

But we're talking about people who have health problems and no history of exercise activity. For them, just starting to move is a huge step forward.

This lady probably wouldn't have reached 80 if she had continued on her current path. If we tell people like this, "you must lift weights", we will lost most of them. I have taught a few women to lift, even tiny ones, and of course they can learn and be very strong. But there's a serious stigma when it comes to weight lifting and women. They either think it's impossible, or they think they will end up looking like the woman in the article. Now I'm a fan of built women, but most women seem to really NOT want to look like that.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by edanm on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:20AM (#27956277)
Kind of side topic, but - do you think 5x5 is a good idea for 80+ year olds?

From what I know, at an older age, the chance of injury, not to mention the danger of injury, is way higher. The standard advice afaik is therefore to aim for lower weight / higher reps, because the risk of injury is therefore greatly reduced.

Not saying that 5x5 is necessarily incorrect, just that I would imagine a 8-10 rep based routine would be better for purposes of injury reduction (while still improving muscle conditioning, obviously).

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by wrycoder on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:47AM (#27959289)
I don’t follow 5x5, I recommend startingstrength.com. I use three sets of five following a good warmup.

Look at The Barbell Prescription book for more details - it’s about strength training after 40. Good form is important, and a trained coach can help with that.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by wrycoder on Sunday July 25, 2021 @08:41PM (#27954282)
Your regimen sounds great. Agreed, it's hard to get people going, but once they're going, they should be encouraged to advance.

Running is mostly a solitary sport. Lifting can be communal.

Slow and steady does it. If you hurt yourself by overdoing it when you are getting old, it will take much longer to recover.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by 1123581321 on Monday July 26, 2021 @06:09PM (#27966114)
That’s why it’s important to stop miseducating them that all popular forms of exercise are roughly equivalent. It’s too easy to choose the easier/least embarrassing option if the stark differences in outcomes aren’t apparent.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by briankelly on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:55PM (#27952828)
Running, done properly, builds muscle, joint, and bone strength (it seems you are implying that it doesn't). Of course, there is plenty wrong in the world of casual running where runners try to rack up mileage without ever looking at pace or their running form. Serious runners won't disagree with you there.

But the same dynamic exists in other sports, including weightlifting. Plenty of causal weight lifters focus on the weight they are pushing exclusively and never consider their bodyfat, go on "dirty bulks" or permanently injure themselves with poor form or pushing it too far (also see CrossFit).

For most people, having a couple of different and reasonably different physical activities, and sticking to them, is going to be enough. The most important thing is that people actually use their bodies into old age. Exercise isn't the rocket science people make it out to be.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by zemvpferreira on Sunday July 25, 2021 @07:09PM (#27953794)
I have nothing against running as a form of exercise, but let's not pretend it builds muscle optimally or is in any way, shape or form conductive to good joint health. It's a repetitive, low-ROM, impact-based sport. It's fun and rewarding and good for your circulation or burning massive amounts of calories, but that's it.

Bodybuilding (done properly) is about as close to perfect for maintaining a functioning body into old age as you can design an activity: It's easily scalable from zero to infinity, has regression and progression to your abilities built in, and huge benefits from even the smallest investment. It can be performed with basically no impact. It improves joint health. It helps you train to perform every day activities. It can easily be modified to cope with injuries, missing limbs, whatever limitation you have. It benefits you hormonally in a massive way. etc etc

I'm 36. I do about 14 hours of tennis/surf every week, plus maybe 2 hours of gym work and lots of moving around during the day for my construction work. I love my sports but my body would be a wreck if it weren't for the resistance exercise I do to prepare/rehabilitate it. I would do a lot more of it if I were smart.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by lenkite on Thursday July 29, 2021 @07:36AM (#27995263)
Depends on what kind of running are you doing. HIT all-out interval sprinting is truly extraordinary for weight-loss and muscle gain. I find it far, far more fun than lifting weights. But then I prefer to exercise outdoors after sitting at a desk all day.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by nextos on Sunday July 25, 2021 @08:39PM (#27954272)
Running is super difficult to get right because most surfaces are too hard and runners seldomly have a proper form.

My dad was an elite athlete who ran for the national team. By age 50, many of his cartilages were worn out and he experienced extreme pain while doing daily chores.

He says you should only jog on grass or sand.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by TaupeRanger on Sunday July 25, 2021 @03:54PM (#27952369)
Some real Nassim Taleb style advice right here. As a guy in his mid-30s, I'm glad to have come across this kind of advice early on so I can keep up healthy habits for the later decades (assuming I'm not hit by a meteor first).
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by michaelcampbell on Sunday July 25, 2021 @08:43PM (#27954293)
It if were Nassim Taleb advice, it'd use 10x the number of words, and glorify Nassim Taleb's advice given by Nassim Taleb.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by mi_lk on Sunday July 25, 2021 @03:59PM (#27952406)
> Nassim Taleb style advice

what does that mean

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by TaupeRanger on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:04PM (#27952439)
He's a popular author that offers very similar advice as far as lifting and walking.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by swader999 on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:22PM (#27952580)
Yep. I'm fifty and lifting just so I can still do activities like skiing and windsurfing at a level I'm happy about.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by mandeepj on Sunday July 25, 2021 @03:58PM (#27952390)
> I walk for an hour, usually over hills, since walking on the flat doesn’t get my HR up enough, and I don’t want to stress my knees by jogging

>usually over hills

Are you sure that's also not stressing your knees?

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by wrycoder on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:03PM (#27952433)
It’s comparable to walking on the flat.

But, you have to be really careful on the downhill parts - that’s what gets the knees. I was surprised to notice that it takes me longer to go down than up - and I think that’s good.

Jogging is different. I tried that a few years ago and my knees started acting up.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by CodeGlitch on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:31PM (#27952652)
Try hiking sticks, it takes the pressure off the knees for the downhills.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by zemvpferreira on Sunday July 25, 2021 @07:20PM (#27953859)
Have you had a look at kneesovertoesguy? He's a trainer specialised in knee rehab, specifically helping athletes who've had multiple injuries/surgeries recover strength and range of motiong. I've done his programs for a while and learned lots of new things - big surprise as I had been lifting for 15 years before. For the first time in my life I have an easy ass-to-grass squat and massively reduced my knee pain.
Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by wrycoder on Sunday July 25, 2021 @08:15PM (#27954159)
When I was in my early 70s, I thought I'd work up to jogging again. Started easy, walk, jog, walk, jog, etc. This went on for about six months, until I got to about 50%. I was using a minimalist shoe. My knees started to bother me to the point where I finally had to stop.

The pain and stiffness didn't go away. It got to the point where I was picking up my left leg with my hand to get it into the car like some old geezer! I started searching the web and came up with a supplement containing glucosamine and condroitin, along with a small amount of inflammatories to promote healing. Got gradually better, and in six months the stiffness vanished. I stopped using it, and have been fine since. Sometimes I think about a 5K ;-)

A few years ago, my wife developed pain in her hip and knee joints. I suggested she try the same stuff, and, sure enough, the pains went away. She's still using it.

This is all anecdotal, of course. I've never had an actual injury, just joint issues.

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by mandeepj on Sunday July 25, 2021 @11:56PM (#27955473)
> glucosamine and condroitin

Along with MSM - is great. I have taken it few times to get rid of pain induced by - I believe - prolonged sitting and workouts

Re:I was sick, tired and had lost myself until I began lifti... by amanaplanacanal on Sunday July 25, 2021 @06:06PM (#27953366)
Try getting rid of the padded shoes. They are an abomination. Invented by Nike to make money, but they had no idea what they were doing and that they would ruin everybody’s knees.