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Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by zarzavat on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:21AM (#27915655)
Covid has long term effects too, seemingly much more than vaccines. Were this not the case then yes the calculus for younger people would be very different. But it seems that everybody benefits.
Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:50AM (#27915827)
You can only make that judgment for yourself. Assuming that your judgment works for everyone is highly presumptuous.

For myself, I see less risk in going the route where I may not even get COVID at all and risk actually getting it, rather than having a 100% chance of injecting myself with a vaccine that I don't trust.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by CorrectHorseBat on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:49AM (#27916183)
I don't know how you you calculated that risk, but right now the numbers are so overwhelmingly in favor of the vaccines that even with a 1% chance of getting COVID-19 getting the vaccine you don't trust is safer than getting the virus you should trust even less. And unless you live in one of the few countries that have contained COVID-19 (for now), the chance of getting COVID-19 is a lot higher than that.

If you've already had COVID-19 you could argue the numbers become less clear.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @10:27AM (#27919260)
You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right, that's only right now. Until we know more about their long-term effects, we don't know. I'm in the age group that has higher risk of blood clots from the vaccines.

Also, according to some estimates, 60-90% of people have had COVID, so I could have had it.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by CorrectHorseBat on Thursday July 22, 2021 @03:30PM (#27923144)
> You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right,

How can you possibly disagree with that? There is a several orders of magnitude difference. Data for the USA: there are 6,207 reports of people dying after getting the vaccine (of which only a few have a plausible causal relationship between getting the vaccine and death) [1], while there are 607,289 registered COVID-19 deaths [2] (and yes, the excess deaths do agree with that number [3]). There are exactly three confirmed vaccine deaths in the USA, from TTS due to the J&J vaccine.

> Until we know more about their long-term effects, we don't know

I agree, so we should act on basis of the data we have right now. And that data says overwhelmingly says getting a vaccine is much safer than getting COVID-19 on the short and mid long-term. There is nothing that points to that on the long term suddenly the vaccines will be worse than the virus.

> I'm in the age group that has higher risk of blood clots from the vaccines.

There is no evidence that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines increase the risk of blood cloths. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that COVID-19 does.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... [2] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=http... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @04:55PM (#27924201)
We should not act just on the basis of data we know now. We should also follow the Precautionary Principle.

These vaccines are still experimental. I am not going to take any one of them until at least they are not and companies accept liability for them.

On top of that, trying to shame people into taking the vaccines, as I see so many doing, is authoritarian. It does not lead to a good place.

This is my line in the sand against authoritarianism. It turns out that my line is against being forced to be part of an experiment. Where's yours?

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by _Microft on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:59AM (#27915870)
With communicable diseases, your decision does not only affect you yourself but the rest of society as well. So we are actually making a decision for everyone with that.
Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @10:32AM (#27919327)
One of the greatest lies of this COVID saga is that everyone is responsible for everyone else's health. We are not. The vulnerable are responsible for their own health and should take measures to protect themselves, not expect everyone else to do it for them.
Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by _Microft on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:57PM (#27922127)
Always Has Been

You have always been responsible not only for your own safety but also for the safety of your contacts/co-workers/environment. If you think otherwise, you might want to reflect about communicable diseases/STDs/traffic/gun safety/work place safety/you name it in general and it should become glaringly obvious. Covid safety is not different. For now, the required measures are more severe but it is not true that it is a special in regard of having to look out for others.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @04:50PM (#27924154)
COVID safety is different because the measures we are being forced to do is actually affecting our ability to live.
Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by vkou on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:54AM (#27915841)
> You can only make that judgment for yourself. Assuming that your judgment works for everyone is highly presumptuous.

Yet people who refuse to get vaccinated seem to have no problem making this judgement for other people that they are likely to spread COVID to, when they fall ill.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @10:34AM (#27919345)
When I fall ill, I quarantine. I do not just "spread" it to others.

Other than that, I'm not responsible for the health of other people. They are responsible for their own health.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by vkou on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:57PM (#27922124)
Covid also spreads asymptomatically, and for a lot of people, days 1-14 of it can feel a lot like a common cold. You need to take preventable measures to not be a potential spreader. Those measures are... Getting vaccinated.

Unless you are living in a spacesuit, you shedding viral particles into common spaces does make you responsible for the health of other people.

Re:Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines by ghoward on Thursday July 22, 2021 @04:51PM (#27924170)
If people are vulnerable, they are responsible for taking precautions. If I am sick, even with the "common cold," I quarantine.