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Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by Nextgrid on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:29PM (#27875227)
The other peril of M1 ownership is the lack of alternative operating systems. The other way I reinstalled an older Macbook through "internet recovery" and it downloaded the version it was originally shipped with - macOS Mojave.

The UI was a breath of fresh air compared to Big Sur. Despite the screen being smaller than my M1 the information density was higher and it felt more like a tool than a toy. The lack of bullshit apps such as Apple TV, News & co and useless "widgets" was also good (for all of iTunes' flaws, it's still better than its modern successors), and it somehow felt faster despite being less than half the processing power of the M1.

I now wish I could run this on my M1 but alas I can't. At least with PCs and older Macs you could always switch to Windows or Linux, but with the M1 you're currently screwed - if Apple drops the ball or decides to take their OS in a direction you don't like you currently have no alternative (and all the "security" around locking out the user from their own machine doesn't bode well for alternative OSes).

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by aeontech on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:17PM (#27875714)
You might be happy to hear about Linux running on M1 Macs already then (and Windows ARM version will run as soon as Microsoft gets around to it, I expect).

https://asahilinux.org/about/

https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/28/linux-kernel-5-13-officially-...

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by deaddodo on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:34PM (#27876901)
Asahi Linux hardly runs on M1. They're definitely spearheading research into the hardware and have done a ton. But the project is well into it's infancy.

And it's doubtful Microsoft would ever go through the same effort to port Windows on ARM to the M1, instead probably relying on Apple's virtualization framework to allow it to run.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by aeontech on Sunday July 18, 2021 @09:48PM (#27878433)
Sure, it doesn't happen overnight. My point was to point out to parent that Apple is not explicitly trying to block other OS's from booting, and alternatives will become available as the systems mature.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by deaddodo on Sunday July 18, 2021 @09:58PM (#27878493)
You said “already” for Linux and “soon” for Windows. Neither (well one definitely the other speculatively) of which are true.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by aeontech on Monday July 19, 2021 @07:26AM (#27881367)
You're right, I hadn't checked the site recently and I thought the project were further along - I should've said "booting already" to be conservative.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by sharikous on Monday July 19, 2021 @06:29AM (#27880946)
It is implicitly so. As far as I know you need to reverse engineer the whole process and disguise the kernel you want to run as a macOS Mach kernel. They keep a finger on the trigger by having an encrypted Secure Boot system, too. Not to mention how much the system is locked in (soldered SSD necessary for booting, Internet connection mandatory for starting the system the first time, etc..)

One or two steps short of the hermetic lockdown of iOS devices.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by rvz on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:32PM (#27876894)
That's great news but how do users go about 'installing it' right now?

I think the comments in 9to5mac are just as bewildered as I and many users are. By the time a guide is written, they would have moved on to getting an M1X or M2 Macbook, still waiting.

It's only got kernel support, but is actually still not 'user ready'. Could take months for that to happen.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by deaddodo on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:36PM (#27876920)
You don't. Asahi is far away from usable. They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer.

* Not decrying Asahi, they've done a lot of work and continue to do so. But it's best not to misrepresent the project's status.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by marcan_42 on Monday July 19, 2021 @01:40AM (#27879607)
Your description isn't quite accurate either. IRQ, DART drivers have been written; I2C, UART, NVMe, USB, PCI, USB-C/PD, Wi-Fi drivers have been adapted.

I'm currently working on reverse engineering the display controller and will move onto the GPU after that. Alyssa has been working on the GPU userspace stack and the GLES2 tests are 80% or so passing, running mesa on macOS (open source userspace, Apple's kernel driver).

I've spent a lot of time brainstorming the installer and researching the approach, and we already have manual install guide. I'll work on that as soon as the GPU kernel stuff is on track.

As for userspace, there's nothing to be done for basic support; you can install any distro userspace you like. The main things there are the Mesa driver and, eventually, helpers for stuff like the Touch Bar (obviously we'll get the non-TB Macs running nicely earlier, TB is an annoying complication).

Things are in various stages of development and review, and yes, only IRQ, UART and basic bring-up is upstreamed, but I think you'll find things get to end-user usability a lot faster than you might think.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by rvz on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:51PM (#27877008)
> They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer.

Exactly my point as I have already said. We know it is not user ready but the parent comment is making as if it is already running on M1 Macs; which is hardly true.

To debunk the M1 Linux hype squad again, it does not work to the point of it being usable and will take months to get it 'user ready'.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by SheinhardtWigCo on Monday July 19, 2021 @01:40AM (#27879610)
It'll never be "user ready". It'll be like a Hackintosh: a quaint toy for hobbyists that is constantly broken by Apple's new stuff and therefore unlivable as a daily driver. Only the most fanatical folks would be willing to live on a flavor of Linux that can only survive hardware revisions through extensive reverse engineering efforts. I say this despite having a huge amount of respect for the developers.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by marcan_42 on Monday July 19, 2021 @02:06AM (#27879716)
My job description is literally to prove you wrong :-)
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by rdaystrom on Sunday July 18, 2021 @09:37PM (#27878366)
I'm hoping it will be 'user ready' by the time the M5 multitronic Macbook comes out. That will be the ultimate computer.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday July 19, 2021 @12:02AM (#27879124)
Until the M7 ... or M9 ... or some not-so-power-savvy-but-beast of a Ryzen shows up ... or ....
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by rdaystrom on Monday July 19, 2021 @03:52AM (#27880210)
Hopefully Captain Kirk doesn't end up destroying the M7 or M9. That would be annoying.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by brokenmachine on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:35AM (#27902681)
Direct anal interface to Apple HQ. Can't wait.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by vogon_laureate on Monday July 19, 2021 @08:30AM (#27881885)
The latest release of OpenBSD also has preliminary support for the M1 macs.

https://www.openbsd.org/69.html

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by salamandersauce on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:35PM (#27875281)
T2 Macs are still handicapped when it comes to Linux. It can run but with too many caveats. Needs special kernel versions with custom modules to have working keyboard/trackpad and at least last time I looked couldn't have both audio and sleep. Too big of a compromise on a laptop for me to use it. Wish I could. Seems like M1 Macs are going to have better Linux support than the T2 ones where BridgeOS throws a bunch of complications into the mix.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by smoldesu on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:04PM (#27875552)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who truly loved Mojave! Once Apple cut off 32-bit support, it seemed like stuff really started going downhill. I still might pick up an M1 machine secondhand once Linux support is ironed out, it would be a fun little tinker-toy.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by gjsman-1000 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:36PM (#27875286)
Well, in Apple’s defense, backporting old versions of MacOS makes no sense and would cause developers much headache, Linux already boots to a GUI on the M1 Mac mini (just no HW acceleration), and the list of available operating systems will grow each year there is a MacOS release. Just like you can’t run MacOS 10.6 Snow Leopard on the MacBook you restored.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by MeinBlutIstBlau on Sunday July 18, 2021 @07:02PM (#27877481)
All of your talking points are the reason why I can't devote myself to the Apple ecosystem anymore. On top of making it borderline impossible to retrieve any of your data as a file, they have been focusing way too much on Apple One and their SaaS models than they have their actual products. It wasn't until the M1 came around that I really looked upon them very disfavorably.

But now with Macbooks reaching $2k for a decent base model on the horizon, I'm really starting to just dip further into Linux every day. At least with ext4, btrfs, or zfs I can access those files on different operating systems. APFS? Have fun with recovering those backups without having to shell out for another Mac. Not to mention the OS is free. Had I still been an avid gamer Windows would hold it's leash on me, but Windows 11 is not looking better either.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by Nextgrid on Sunday July 18, 2021 @07:04PM (#27877493)
> APFS? Have fun with recovering those backups without having to shell out for another Mac

I've successfully used Paragon's APFS filesystem driver to mount an encrypted APFS drive on Linux. The price was reasonable too: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/apfs-linux/

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by sharikous on Monday July 19, 2021 @07:04AM (#27881190)
APFS is openly documented (although a bit badly): https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/Apple-File-Sys...

Your point still stands, though, with those soldered in SSDs needed for the boot process...

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by heavyset_go on Sunday July 18, 2021 @07:38PM (#27877720)
There are two open source FUSE drivers for APFS that, theoretically, should work on any system with userspace file system support. They don't support all APFS features, though, and I wouldn't rely on them for anything serious or that you care about.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by brianzelip on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:34PM (#27875265)
…and Mojave is EOL this year, so here comes Catalina, with the shit show that was that experience which kept me on Mojave so long.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by dheera on Monday July 19, 2021 @12:19AM (#27879220)
Will the coming of ARM laptops spell the death of a solid native Linux laptop?

I really wish I could get Ubuntu on a Samsung Galaxy Book Go, but it seems it isn't possible (?)

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by dralley on Monday July 19, 2021 @01:21AM (#27879534)
No. Both Dell and Lenovo are now selling Enterprise laptops with Linux officially available as a supported pre-installed option.

And System76 are apure-Linux operation building their own open source firmware in house to get the level of support and features they want.

I don't think x86 will die so quickly, and Linux has been getting a lot more support from OEMs recently than it has historically.

Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by opan on Monday July 19, 2021 @03:39AM (#27880138)
A friend of mine runs Arch on his Samsung Chromebook Plus, and there's also the Pinebook Pro. Both ARM. Both happen to use the RK3399 SoC, I believe, but there are other supported machines like the Asus Chromebook C201 as well.
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by forgotmypw17 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:40PM (#27879023)
My general solution to this kind of predicament is to install VirtualBox and do everything inside the VM :)
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by zebnyc on Monday July 19, 2021 @12:48AM (#27879358)
VirtualBox is not supported on M1 architecture
Re:The Perils of M1 Ownership by dheera on Monday July 19, 2021 @12:20AM (#27879227)
And then in the VM you get half the RAM and a crippled GPU.