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Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by pmoriarty on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:40PM (#27874334)
I hate to say it, but if what you're communicating could risk your life or that of someone else you might want to avoid using computers to communicate it altogether.

Old-school techniques such as physically smuggling microdots[1] seem much safer than relying on any computer technology, which can always be hacked.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdot

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by dogorman on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:44PM (#27874360)
If these hacking firms succeed in chasing journalists off digital communication, I think the totalitarian regimes they serve will consider that "a win."
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by pmoriarty on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:45PM (#27874374)
It's arguably an even bigger "win" for them if they kill off or imprison those journalists.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by dogorman on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:50PM (#27874413)
They're doing that too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

These firms are helping authoritarian regimes kill and imprison journalists. The journalists who survive by being paranoid will be made less effective by having to use less effective methods of communication, which likely aren't understood by the people journalists talk to (whistleblowers, witnesses, etc.)

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by dillondoyle on Sunday July 18, 2021 @06:27PM (#27877248)
The articles show that his wife (or whoever was his partner idk status) was hacked around the time of his murder.

Also reports Mexican journalist was hacked, then executed right after at an obscure location. Heavily implies GPS tracking was used for the hit.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by buran77 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @01:20PM (#27874656)
Old-school techniques were hard to pull off even by trained spies with a proper (and vast) support network, let alone by journalists and John Rando who have never met. If you're on a watch list that gets your phone flagged for malware then it's not a stretch to assume that you can also be physically watched. And meeting in person with journalists or sources while being under surveillance is like painting a target on your back.

And that's before considering that a journalist would never have a realistic chance to meet potential sources under repressive regimes on the other side of the world, certainly not a useful number.

Computers and encryption made this kind of covert communication far more accessible to the laymen. Anything that sets that back just deters people from even trying and this is exactly the chilling effect those oppressive regimes are looking for.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by pmoriarty on Sunday July 18, 2021 @01:28PM (#27874708)
"If you're on a watch list that gets your phone flagged for malware then it's not a stretch to assume that you can also be physically watched."

The difference is you need way more resources and funds to physically watch and search a lot of people than to spy on their computer communications or hack in to their phones/laptops.

Mass computer surveillance is practical, easy, and affordable.. mass physical surveillance is much harder, much more expensive, and impractical to do effectively on large populations.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by buran77 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:17PM (#27875702)
> you need way more resources and funds to physically watch and search a lot of people [...] Mass computer surveillance is practical, easy, and affordable

You're right but old-school methods make everything impractical, hard, expensive, and far riskier for both the dissident who already has enough reasons to just stay quiet, and also for the journalist. They set a very high bar for succeeding. You're asking a regular person to take the end-to-end role of a Cold War spy and their source. And this when having access to sensitive info, suspicious purchases like photographic equipment and chemicals, trips abroad, or any attempt to contact a journalist would individually be enough to put someone on a watch list. There are only so many ways to get in contact with a journalist and set up meetings that don't involve any electronic communication.

The state can take a lot more than the individual. So the question is how many people who have sensitive information to share could or would go that route in face of this dramatically mounting pressure? Anything that raises that bar for doing it is a win for the oppressive regime because it makes surveillance that much easier.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @01:15PM (#27874618)
I think if you sell an exploit and it's used in a crime you should be held accountable as if you sold a weapon to an enemy.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by slg on Sunday July 18, 2021 @01:54PM (#27874910)
Would you want people who develop encryption algorithms held accountable if those algorithms are used to hide illegal activities?
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by jazzyjackson on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:38PM (#27875300)
Like comparing a gun safe to a gun
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:09PM (#27875047)
No
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by slg on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:13PM (#27875092)
How is it different? They are tools that can be used for both legal and illegal means. If you put legal responsibility on one toolmaker to ensure their tools are not used in an illegal fashion, why wouldn't you do the same for other toolmakers?
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by zatertip on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:44PM (#27875351)
Isn't that obvious?

An exploit is to encryption as a sword is to a shield.

We don't regulate shields.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by slg on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:00PM (#27875504)
A shield can inflict damage just like a sword can. Encryption hiding the details of a murder plot can be just as crucial as an exploit that reveals a murder target's location.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by ohgodplsno on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:45PM (#27876980)
And you will be jailed should you murder someone with a shield. But since the primary purpose of a shield is defense, it's assumed you will not use it as a blunt weapon. Buying a two handed longsword will definitely get you on some list, however.

Stop trying to find gotchas. Weapons (read: items whose primary goals are to inflict damage, maim, kill, injure, destroy) are and should be regulated.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by slg on Sunday July 18, 2021 @06:27PM (#27877247)
The point of OP's original comment is that it isn't enough for the seller to assume that the customers will use the product in a legal manner. Once you start holding the seller legally liable for use of their product, the primary purpose of that product becomes irrelevant. All possible uses must now be considered when selling a product.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by rixed on Monday July 19, 2021 @03:00AM (#27879975)
> A shield can inflict damage just like a sword can

That's your mistake right there

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by Talanes on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:40PM (#27875947)
We do regulate body armor though.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by MajorBee on Sunday July 18, 2021 @04:04PM (#27876168)
I looked into this because I was intrigued, turns out convicted felons in the good ol' United States are not allowed to purchase/wear/own body armor [1] (barring explicit exceptions).

I wonder what the rationale behind this federal law is. Does wearing/purchasing armor indicate that you, convicted felon, are simply up to no good once again? Is it one of those "you don't need ~~privacy~~ armor if you don't have anything to hide" things?

[1] https://www.shotstop.net/resources-1/2020/9/8/is-it-legal-to...

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by Talanes on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @12:35AM (#27890120)
Because the state wants to make their ability to use force against rule-breakers as strong as possible. Some states even make the use of body armor while committing one crime it's own separate crime.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by DangitBobby on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:01PM (#27874975)
We can pick and choose.
Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by contravariant on Sunday July 18, 2021 @08:56PM (#27878159)
I don't disagree but how many occasions can you name where a country was being held accountable for weapons getting in the wrong hands?

Or a company for that matter, if we want to keep up the pretense that the NSO group is acting independently.

Re:Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journa... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:53PM (#27874444)
Journalism is already a profession running on fumes (literally, in the past. More metaphorically, today). It's just not feasible to do without technology.

People sometimes seem to imagine some world inhibited by security-conscious professions that is more akin to a slick movie than real life. Witness the common believe that, say, blocking websites at DNS levels has zero impact on crime because it's easy to circumvent.

Real-life criminals, journalists, or activists prefer Telegram over code tattooed on a messenger's scalp for the same reason we all do: hair grows too slow and nobody is getting on international flights right now. I know it's fun to imagine all these activities involving "threat actors" and steganographic key exchanges via Pornhub (Alex and Bob getting on?). But that road leads to busywork that doesn't get any corrupt politician's name on that white page.