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Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by dahfizz on Friday July 16, 2021 @10:11AM (#27856382)
I think the only layer that we can fix these kinds of issues is in court.

Juries should only be allowed to hear objective facts. No character testimonies, no eye witnesses, no confessions after a 12 hour interrogation. Objective facts only.

This would likely mean guilty people don't get convicted, but I think that is a worthy tradeoff for a more fair justice system. An innocent person going to jail is much more egregious than a guilty person going free.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by istjohn on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:36AM (#27857380)
The whole point of a jury trial is for the jury to decide what they believe are the facts from the evidence, testimony, and arguments provided by the lawyers on both sides. You are essentially proposing that we kneecap juries by taking the power of fact-finding away from them and handing it to another authority. That would undermine the check on government overreach juries are meant to provide.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by salawat on Friday July 16, 2021 @09:43PM (#27862968)
You woefully undershoot the position of power that juries hold, and this is no surprise The judicial system frowns on those who understand the concept of jury nullification.

The jury is the People's seat and primary check on the exercise of Governmental power. It's one more layer to the overall setup of checks and balances.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by jschwartzi on Friday July 16, 2021 @10:21AM (#27856480)
This wouldn’t work, because a person’s intent matters for many crimes.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by pc86 on Friday July 16, 2021 @10:25AM (#27856533)
Good luck telling an eye witness that what they saw isn't an objective fact, or the DA that the handwritten, signed confession in his hand isn't an objective fact.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by gambiting on Friday July 16, 2021 @10:38AM (#27856673)
>>Good luck telling an eye witness that what they saw isn't an objective fact,

The thing is, we have studies upon studies upon studies that show repeatedly and undoubtedly that witness testimony is shit. If you show 10 people an event and ask them to describe what they saw an hour later, they will describe it in 10 different ways, frequently changing facts, adding things that never happened, or omitting important details. In trials, you get witness testimony from years before, and it's treated as if every single word said is absolute objective truth - like, we have the science to prove that no, actually, most likely it isn't, and it should be treated as "maybe true" at best.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by 988747 on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:11AM (#27857064)
But disregarding witness testimonies puts us on even more dangerous path: in order to know "objective facts" you need to put surveilance cameras and microphones everywhere so there is a video footage of every crime.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by dionidium on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:41AM (#27857445)
> The thing is, we have studies upon studies upon studies that show repeatedly and undoubtedly that witness testimony is shit.

Like so many things, I think the mistake here is to assume you can educate your way out of this. You could send every citizen through a six-week course on the problems with eye-witness testimony and some percentage of them will come out on the other side of that training insisting that, nah, if somebody says they saw the crime, then they saw it. We're talking about deep psychological biases carefully shaped by hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by vkou on Friday July 16, 2021 @02:02PM (#27859180)
It's worse than that actually.

An eyewitness will tell the DA that they don't remember shit about what happened years ago, and the DA will reassure them that they police have ways of making them remember.

Source: A close friend of mine is getting pulled in to testify in a criminal case about some junkie that they may have called the police on three years ago. He has called the police so many times, and has dealt with so many sketchy, drug-influenced people, he can't even remember what the person in question did.