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Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:35PM (#27841133)
I'm all for the pitch forking when it makes sense, but the congressman has a decent out which wouldn't be hard to prove.

> In the audio recording, Fallon backed this up by outlining the trade as an option call in which he purchased a block of $250,000 in Microsoft shares on May 26, and subsequently sold the rights to other investors to purchase at a later date. Those other investors chose to purchase the shares on June 21, according to disclosure reports, effectively liquidating Fallon's position in the company just two weeks before the high-profile JEDI contract fell through.

He purchased a bunch of stock, or ITM (in the money) options - either way he then sold covered call options (good safe bet). Those sold call options went ITM and someone exercised forcing his position to be liquidated.

Purchase a stock, sell call options to make a bit more money or as a "hedge" against the stock going down.

Either way, classic strategy.

It didn't really work this time because the stock went up too far, out of his expectation which limits the gains to the value of the options sold. But again, it's a relatively safe strategy.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by xrd on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:47AM (#27841423)
Is it at all possible that this kind of trading can be used to conceal "lucky outcomes" when needed and have a plausible deniability?

For example, is there no way that the call options could be purchased on the other side by a friendly party that is a participant in the game?

Does the market absolutely prevent this kind of thing from happening? If not, could this a be way that senators (from both parties of course!) could conceal their insider trading?

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:34AM (#27841722)
> For example, is there no way that the call options could be purchased on the other side by a friendly party that is a participant in the game?

This is very hard to do (read effectively impossible) as an individual person and not an institution. Trades, especially options, go through a brokerage/market maker.

As an individual, there's no way to tell your brokerage to sell "these contracts" to "this person". Which means you would have create "the sale of call option contract" as physical paper? I'm doubtful that's even possible. After you have to manually sell it. It still needs to be declared as a security transfer/sale[0]. THEN you would need to back that contract with the stocks that likely still sit inside a brokerage. The "other participant" would have to then exercise that contract which would "pull" the stock from your account to the "participant's" account.... Would this be done in a brokerage? all outside? Seems impossible as a regular person.

For institutions there is such thing as block trades that happen outside of market, but they're specifically licensed/authorized to do this.

[0] https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-sell-my-shares-to-a-particul...

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by codeddesign on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:44AM (#27841784)
He isn’t required to buy/sell, but with options you only have 2 “options”: buy/sell, or let the contract expire. If the contract expires, you lose everything. This isn’t like holding stock. It’s a price bet in the future with an expiration date.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:52AM (#27841814)
Errr, not sure if there's a misunderstanding here.

The congress person wasn't holding the options contract. He sold call options to someone else. Which actually means he "owes" stock if the contract is exercised.

The congressman is betting the contract will expire worthless and make money on the premiums when he sold the call options.

Maybe I missed something?

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by toast0 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:03AM (#27841520)
Assuming they were standard market traded options, matching exercises with writers is done by a clearing agency, the options are fungible and you can't buy a particular person's options.

Now, you probably could write options off the market if you really wanted to, I suppose.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by fnordfnordfnord on Thursday July 15, 2021 @10:45AM (#27845363)
You'd have to have the insider information far in advance.

>is there no way that the call options could be purchased on the other side by a friendly party that is a participant in the game?

Not for retail traders. I sell covered calls a lot and I never know who buys them.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by quickthrowman on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:50PM (#27852260)
Citadel or another MM is almost always the other party in an options trade
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by fnordfnordfnord on Sunday July 18, 2021 @03:10PM (#27875615)
Yup, that's my understanding as well.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by codeddesign on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:40AM (#27841769)
No, it’s not really possible. The trade is basically sent to the brokerage and covered by the market maker. You aren’t dealing with the pits anymore, it’s all done “blind”
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by HWR_14 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:02AM (#27841510)
Basically, in this case, you should look at the date that he sold the options, instead of the day of the sale. Since it was under a month of ownership, it seems suspicious to me.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:36AM (#27841727)
Why does that seem suspicious?
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by HWR_14 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:39AM (#27841759)
Because that means that he sold it less than a month before the public announcement. Did he really not know they were thinking about it? It's a government decision, it probably took more than a month, or at least were discussing it.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:47AM (#27841801)
I'm assuming your reference of "it" is the "sale of the stock" instead of the "sale of the options contract".

It would be suspicious but his "alibi" is that it was part of someone exercising call options that he sold.

Assuming this is true, he actually has no control when the exercise happened, thus no control of the timing of the sale of the stock itself.

This would need to be verified via the brokerage probably through a subpoena, so it's not really a realistic investigation.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by HWR_14 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:41AM (#27844032)
I'm not sure why you would think I was referencing the "sale of stock" since my point has been the only interesting day was the "sale of option" date. That's what I'm referring to.

Someone else said that he sold the option the same day he bought the stock. That would clear him from any suspecion. However, that's second hand based on someone saying it was in the article and I misread it (quite possible.)

What I was claiming is that the timing makes me think he might sold the option after getting inside information, specifically so he could say "I had to sell the stock" which is a true an irrelevant fact if you sold the obligation based on that information.

Now, like I said, if he sold the option the same day he bought the stock, then he is clearly innocent. And similarly, if he sold a 1-week ITM option after getting briefed, I think he is clearly guilty (morally, if not legally).

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:16PM (#27851717)
Ah sorry that's my bad on the wrong assumption.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by foobarbazetc on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:56PM (#27841239)
It doesn’t even matter because Congresspeople can “insider” trade like this —- it’s not illegal.

I think Sen Gillibrand has a bill to address this called the STOCKS Act which she introduces every Congress but it never goes anywhere.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by pmorici on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:25AM (#27841338)
The STOCK act was passed and signed into law in 2012. It prohibits members of Congress from trading on inside information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by nixpulvis on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:45AM (#27841416)
I'm so damn confused right now. Why hasn't this been used to fucking nail so many politicians!?

We keep hearing so many stories, I honestly believe that Gillibrand could be working on a new bill with an appended 'S'; hoping it somehow changes something.

Our political system here in the U.S.A. is kinda fubar isn't it...

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by busymom0 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:21AM (#27841639)
2013: How Congress Quietly Overhauled Its Insider-Trading Law

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/04/16/17749...

Putting in laws are only as useful as them getting actually enforced.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by lordlimecat on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:10AM (#27844229)
Ironically given the anti-GOP slant of the story, that amendment was introduced by.... Harry Reid. Which, of course, NPR conveniently neglected to mention, instead crediting a GOP house member for "shepherding it" (its approval was unanimous, and needed less than 30 seconds debate).

Any time you get stories like these implying that one side and only one side has corruption on it, you need to look real close because it's almost certainly a load of biased baloney.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by nixpulvis on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:43AM (#27841780)
> "The database itself is almost meaningless," says Holman. He says the only option for those who want to get a comprehensive look at what some 2,900 staffers have filed is to review the cases one by one. "And that's just too big a job for anybody to do."

Oh God.

I'm learning a lot about this I didn't know tonight, thanks.

Ironically, as someone who would like government to employ smarter and more successful people, I'm left wondering how much of their finances we can and should expose. But given how corrupt things seem it feels like we still need to push on this.

Now before I start trying to imagine a way two high power congress members could game the public information requirements between each other, I should go to sleep.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by busymom0 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:43AM (#27843631)
"No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems -- of which getting elected and re-elected are No. 1 and No. 2. Whatever is No. 3 is far behind". - Thomas Sowell
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by nixpulvis on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:52AM (#27841455)
OK, it looks like it's called "Stock Act 2.0" [0] and it's targeting reporting "benefits" gained from government ties.

I'll be curious if they ever work out a definition for "benefit" here.

[0]: https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/news/press/release/icymi-g...

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by nr2x on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:02AM (#27841261)
Exactly, insider trading for congresspeople is totally legal and utterly unethical.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by irjustin on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:25AM (#27841336)
Right, I'm all for public disclosure as well as insider trading laws against congress.

This specific article isn't a good example and should not be used an argument towards that end.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by blowski on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:32AM (#27841369)
It’s how democracy _should_ work. People caught with their fingers in the till are booted out of office. Instead, they have enough partisan support that it doesn’t seem to matter.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by voidfunc on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:44AM (#27841412)
Nothing about democracy implies morality, ethics, or lack of corruption. Its only a system of electing people and as you noted if the politicians constituents dont care it doesn’t really matter what he or she does as it’s effectively a sanctioned activity.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by blowski on Thursday July 15, 2021 @02:29AM (#27841959)
If you want to be pedantic, then it doesn’t even imply elections. Democracy is merely the idea that the right to rule is distributed across all those who are ruled, not just some arbitrary group. Elections are a way of distributing power in this way.

But what I was getting at is that is that we shouldn’t have or even try to have rules for every single thing an elected official can or can’t do. It’s not a good way of running a system of government.

Elected officials should be accountable to their whole electorate. But instead, they are accountable only to their core constituency, everybody else be damned. And their constituency doesn’t care about effective government, only about absurd ideological issues they’ve been whipped into caring about by a collaborative media.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by refenestrator on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:45PM (#27841193)
If taking the job of congressperson required a blind trust, it wouldn't be an issue.
Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by alkonaut on Thursday July 15, 2021 @03:51AM (#27842356)
I’m all for not putting pitchforks down until senior politicians either have to divest (use index funds or similar) or put their assets under neutral management.

The idea that congressmen can invest in the companies they regulate is absurd. I can’t get how there is majority support for it.

Re:GOP Rep. on cyber committee dumped MSFT shortly before $1... by RobRivera on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:54PM (#27841228)
100% well demonstrated. plain old covered calls selling.