News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by o8r3oFTZPE on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @11:06PM (#27829170)
Progress. What would be neat is to see how much data Apple is collecting about its customers after purchase. Why wouldnt we want to know this. Could Apple provide option to hide true email address, tell app do not track and give visibility into data being sniffed without also collecting vast amounts of user data itself. We cannot answer that question until we see the data they collect. I used to be of the mind that Apple was not really hurting anyone until it became clear they are competing with Google and Facebook. Even Apple competing with Microsoft is unsettling because that company has been aggressively acquiring user data, also trying to compete with Google. On issues of user data, these companies have more similarities than they do differences. They are all hoovering it up, albeit through different channels.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by top_post on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @12:34AM (#27829760)
As someone who just bought their first iPad last week, I wonder the exact same thing. A nice cuddle from Apple telling me how they're protecting me from evil, but you hold all the same shit about me. So now I just trust a _different_ for profit company? Until when? At one stage Google wasn't evil, now it's evil as fuck.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by SV_BubbleTime on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @12:46AM (#27829805)
Yes, Apple is a for profit company. On the side they are collecting your data for themselves and blocking others from getting it. Their profits come from products and services.

Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others.

Yes, I personally trust one over the other in this case. Although I don’t know what “for profit” has to do with anything. If it comes to Google or Government, geez, tough call that one.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by deadmutex on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @02:13AM (#27830197)
> Their profits come from selling your data to others

It is a common misconception that FB and Google sell user data.

E.g. see https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583

"Google has also played a leadership role in creating industry standards for transparency and data protection. More than a dozen privacy employees at Google spoke to WIRED about how they make sense of the paradox of their work, insisting that there’s no internal pressure to compromise privacy protections to make a larger profit." -Wired (https://www.wired.com/story/wired-guide-personal-data-collec...)

Google also sells a plethora of physical products (Pixel devices, Nest devices, etc.) and services (Storage[Drive], YouTube premium, Stadia, Nest, Fibit, etc.).

This would be similar to calling Amazon "just a [book]store or a marketplace", whereas they also have their hands in Cloud Computing, logistics, grocery, iot, etc.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @07:20AM (#27831843)
They absolutely sell the multi-feature profile of you from that data, and the data merchants absolutely tie it together then resell it to everyone. In turn, a bank can make or break your ability to buy a home with it. Fintechs helping make credit decisions get that from both, directly and indirectly, and even better when doing a bit of correlation for the bank. Microsoft and Amazon no real help, Apple even less.

Note: Those products by and large all permit and enrich surveillance aggregation of the picture of you, and use with/for third parties/ads. It’s creepy how fast and accurate the multidimensional take has become.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by mavhc on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @07:57AM (#27832087)
So you're saying that by tracking people we can avoid people buying homes they can't afford and causing a market crash?
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @09:03AM (#27832547)
Yes, so long as we don’t mind machines also getting that wrong.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by mavhc on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @10:16AM (#27833261)
...more than humans do currently
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by deadmutex on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @08:07AM (#27832158)
> They absolutely sell the multi-feature profile of you from that data

I'd like to learn more. Do you have a source for that?

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @09:03AM (#27832544)
Not without breaking NDAs. Also not saying you’re in the know, but people in the know start source hunting when truth leaks.

FWIW, I’ve seen you comment on Google email and ads. From what I am aware of, your information on what was/wasn’t and is/isn’t done has been… optimistically colored. I stayed out of it. But you could be less confident in some of these and/or disclose more readily that you are coming with a pro-employer lens while (you say) being far enough from it you might not know for sure.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by petters on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @02:34AM (#27830306)
> Google is a for profit company. On the side the offer products and services. Their profits come from selling your data to others.

Google does not sell the data to others. (In fact, much of Google's profits would remain intact even without any user data. That is the great thing about search ads -- the user tells you exactly what they want. There is no need to guess)

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by jcrites on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @03:26AM (#27830567)
No, but a history of what you’ve previously searched massively improves search results in just a few queries.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by eitland on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:45AM (#27834396)
Fact is despite all the tracking search results for me and many others are significantly worse than they used to.

YMMW and what matters for me might not matter for everyone and weeding spam might be harder than before but:

Double quotes used to work reliably.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by adrianN on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:37AM (#27830925)
At least that's the claim. I don't think that Google's search results are that much better than Duckduckgo's, at least for queries where I'm not searching for local businesses.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @07:24AM (#27831862)
And yet…
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @02:20AM (#27830238)
s/selling your data to others/selling access to you to others/

By collecting data about you, usually without you being consciously aware of it, they can offer access not just to a name/address but to a "profile". You are being profiled.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by anon321321323 on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:26AM (#27830881)
You are being aggressively profiled. They have taken steps to profile even when safari etc put in hurdles.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by benhurmarcel on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:06AM (#27830773)
A big difference is that Apple makes money by selling me devices. Google and Facebook make money by manipulating me into buying their customer's products.

Incentives matter.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by o8r3oFTZPE on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:16AM (#27831129)
Locked down devices. Then making more money from selling subscriptions, developer certificates, running "app stores", advertising services, etc.

To get the full functionality from the device, it is difficult to avoid obtaining an "AppleID". There is an "incentive" for users to sacrifice privacy and control to Apple. That appears to be intentional. Then the after purchase data collection and storage begins.

I am glad these practices have not spread across the entire hardware industry. Imagine buying an SBC and being asked to purchase an "RPi Developer Certificate" or register a "SiFiveID".

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @07:04AM (#27831748)
You cannot use 90% of the capabilities of most software-running appliances w/o agreeing to be individual-consumer-behavior tracked and resold to third party marketers. Try to turn on a new Samsung, LG, Sony, read the fine print. This model is not in Apple’s agreements.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by still_grokking on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @02:52PM (#27836861)
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by duhast on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:42AM (#27830942)
Apple finds it increasingly difficult to convince people to upgrade their phones each and every year. I expect that hardware revenue will be declining over time and will be replaced with revenue generated from services like AppStore, Music subscriptions, iCloud, TV, games and more.

You can see this trend quite clearly already: in 2012 Apple generated only 6% of its revenue from services while in 2020 it was 20%. Services tend to be also more profitable compared to hardware.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by Terretta on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @07:12AM (#27831793)
Your thesis is 1/2 wrong, the hardware slice isn’t declining, they’re baking a bigger pie.

iPhone 12 was biggest super cycle since iPhone 7. It’s not that hardware revenue is declining so much as the flywheel is spun up for the ecosystem.

… [2021] a record-breaking year for Apple, beating the previous full-year record of 231 million units sold in 2015.

Apple is also benefiting from a higher average selling price, with ASPs said to be trending "higher on a positive mix" for the iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/03/22/iphone-12-supercy...

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by johnchristopher on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:22AM (#27830863)
Isn't it not entirely out of reason to wonder if Apple could also want to monetize their user data ?
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by jraph on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:26AM (#27830879)
No. Apple could change directions. The only way to guarantee data won't be used is to not put it on anyone else's computer.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by csomar on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:32AM (#27831193)
They already are by selling privacy as a "feature".
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by o8r3oFTZPE on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:40AM (#27831228)
As the ad tech person interviewed in the article called it, "privacywashing" (as in "greenwashing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_washing).
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by deregulateMed on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @08:05AM (#27832153)
Apple already hands your data over to the US and Chinese government.

We wouldn't know about it, but they were caught.

It's just marketing.

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by utucuro on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:27AM (#27830885)
But Apple also makes money by selling you access to content. By extension, they are motivated to motivate you to buy said content. Having no goodwill left for any of them, I see no reason to assume that they would not resort to other forms of manipulation. In fact, from their own past, we know they are very happy to employ shady tactics as seen in for example the Apple-Google-Intel-Adobe Collusion case, the Batterygate lawsuits, ongoing right of repair cases etc.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by jensensbutton on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @08:12AM (#27832188)
Apple's biggest engine for growth is services. Even they are clear about that.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by ComodoHacker on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:34AM (#27831202)
Incentives indeed matter, and incentives could change quickly once volume and value of Apple's collected data reach a critical point. But no one will be able to take their data back.
Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by abrawill on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @03:20AM (#27830537)
“Get a copy of the data associated with your Apple ID account”

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208502

Re:A privacy war is raging inside the W3C by o8r3oFTZPE on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:59AM (#27831026)