It’s not that simple. Sometimes the lease is a better deal if you fall into the correct mileage band or if a manufacturer over estimates residual value. This happens a lot for fast depreciation luxury cars that aren’t a as popular or low end economy cars that manufacturers are dumping.

Those never-ending payments are covering depreciation. Unless you keep your car for 10+ years and it’s one of the rare models that holds value after that, you’re not much better off buying it.

> The fact that cars depreciate seems like the best reason to "rent" them.

Last I checked, the average age of cars in the US is 13 years. on average you are going to be better off buying.

The number of people who, after an item is paid of, go out and replace it immediately are the same people who are bad with money anyway, so it makes sense that those people think it's financially better to rent.

Buying 10 year old cars that are nearly fully depreciated is where you save big money. You can get a dependable car for a few thousand dollars, and even if it needs more repairs than a new car you still come out money ahead especially if you can do small repairs yourself.

Buying whatever is unfashionable and just a hair older than whatever lenders will finance is where the value always is.

Of course both of those are moving targets to some extent.

> Buying 10 year old cars that are nearly fully depreciated is where you save big money.

Not in my experience. You either pay in depreciation or in maintenance, there is no escaping car expenses.

A 10 year depreciated car may need a timing belt/water pump, possible head gasket issues, possible transmission issues, etc.

You're also just paying for predictability. While lemons are a thing, they're less so than they used to be, and there's something to be said--if you can afford it--for buying a car that can probably run for 10+ years with minimal risk of serious maintenance issues.

And, in snow belt areas, you start to run into rust issues 15 or so years on.

I used to live in the snow belt (or salt belt, if you will) and it took much less than 15 years to have rust issues.

I've seen plenty of freak issues with new cars that turn them into a similar pit, and not all of it under warranty or recall. The trick is to find a used car that just had some of this work done and from models that aren't plagued with these issues typically, and if the cars are 10 years old or so people start learning which of these models are the lemons and which will happily go 300k miles with not much drama.

What messes with the perception is people buy used cars they could never afford new. An apples to apples comparison is what that same car would have cost new not simply what someone can afford because it’s new.

A nice new BMW SUV is likely to depreciate 30k in 5 years, but that same car is extremely unlikely to need 30k of repairs if bought after 10 years and kept for another 5.

More critically you’re also paying dramatically more in sales and property taxes.

An older bmw could easily cost you 3-5k a year in repairs . Couple that with lesser but still substantial depreciation and you might find it too be a lot more expensive than you thought.

Anecdotal. But I haven't spent $5k in repairs to my 17 year old bmw in the 10 years I've owned it. I do budget for $1k a year though.

My 2010 BMW had $5,000.00 in repairs in the first year after the warranty expired. That doesn’t include the $15,000.00 in unnecessary repairs the dealership quoted me. In the four years since then repairs have been closer to $2,000.00 a year.

The electric water water pump alone was $2,000.00. $1,200.00 in parts and $800.00 in labor. This is basically a “maintenance” item. The car has less than 100k miles and is on the third pump.

you got scammed, VDO 11519455978 is $330

You are in the bmw sweet spot I think. Newer ones have even more complex and expensive parts but reliability isn’t better and access is difficult

Sure. I'm pre turbo. The electric water pump is undoubtedly better for long term, but had initial issues (on the other hand, it has a clear engine code and is easier to access)

I have a 2010 BMW 335, which is twin turbocharged. It is on electric water pump #3 in less than 100k miles. My mechanic tells me not to worry about coolant change intervals because these water pumps will never last that long anyway.

The electric pump is great from a performance/efficiency perspective because the car can make choices about coolant temp irrespective of engine speed. It's a horrible device from a reliability perspective though. I have already been stranded by it once.

My turbos are "fine". But I know they will fail in the next 30k miles. In talking to my mechanic the prices fluctuate quite a bit, so I am going to start keeping an eye out and just buy a pair to have on hand when mine finally let go.

The previous owner of mine installed a new water pump at 80k miles, and I did it again at 150k. Similarly don't have to change the coolant because the coolant expansion tank will break in 5 years time. (the corner is plastic and can't take the pressure.

But they've been saying that as long as I've been buying used BMWs (20 years). It's just a way of conveniently saying "you'll be wrong in the future".

My experience with BMWs is that they do tend to have ridiculous flaws, like the main bearing problems in the E90 M3s and the V10 M5s, or the fuel pump issues on the E90s in general. But BMW will set them right.

The reality is BMWs just have a lot of stuff on them and so it is a numbers game. Things are going to break. Cars are a hostile environment. This is compounded by the fact that it is a BMW. I expect everything to work. If it was a used Corolla I may not complain as much about the seat mechanism not working perfectly every time.

Additionally BMW also expects the car to work perfectly and the car is eager to tell you any time something is abnormal. This creates something of an illusion of unreliability. An old Toyota also has a lot of problems, you just don't notice until you go looking.

And finally, dealers are predatory. They take advantage of the reputation of BMWs as expensive unreliable cars and sell unnecessary services, which perpetuates the expensive/unreliable reputation.

Thanks for the anecdote; Makes me glad I have an e46. About the only thing that didn't make it 80k miles on my car was the plastic headlight reflectors. (and that coolant expansion tank that fails 5 years on the dot)

I'm also lucky enough to be trained in vehicle maintenance; The only service I've had done by professionally were recalls and when I didn't have garage available to do the expansion tank (and Pep Boys didn't have a supply chain, so I got my choice in parts)

The timing belt and water pump are each <2 hour jobs if done preventatively.

Head gasket shouldn't be a problem if the pump and coolant are changed before they go bad.

Anecdotal source; bought a 7 year old bmw at 123k miles (timing chain is still good at 185k), clutch is still good, brake parts cost $250, shocks less than $500, a valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket. Coolant expansion tank has to be replaced every 5 years ($150). My 10 years, 180k miles has been a better experience than many friend's first 5 years.

This. I drive a bmw 3 series. It retailed for $41k in 2004. I bought used in 2011 for $11k. It's now worth about $4. I still drive it, my maintenance costs are minimal, about $250 a year (I do it myself)

Did you mean to write $4k? Because I will absolutely buy your 2004 BMW 3 series for $4.

lol, yee, yes i did mean $4k; and no, hard enough to even get me to consider selling for a newer car, much less for its value or less.

Eh, that depends. Typically car depreciation is not linear. Depreciation is higher in the initial years and the % depreciation reduces each year. Buying a car, keeping it for 5 years and selling it off might be cheaper than leasing a new one every 3 years.

That calculation ignores transaction costs. Selling every 10 years is cheaper 9 years. 9 years is cheaper than 8 years etc.

Eventually starting over is cheaper, but that’s usually at 15+ years when facing a major repair.

Depreciation is not a cash flow.