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Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by sethammons on Sunday July 11, 2021 @07:56PM (#27805531)
A couple years past, def under Obama, I went in for a retina exam. They absolutely could not tell me the price for the appointment. "It depends on services rendered" - "what if it is a standard appointment with no extra services, how much (ball park) should I expect? $50? $500? $5k?" - "I couldn't tell you, I can't imagine that high."

There is no price transparency. Sure would like it since I have a high deductible plan.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by bushbaba on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:08PM (#27805596)
Price transparency plus high deductible plans would drive the cost of health insurance down.

Health insurance is supposed to cover you for catastrophic health issues that were previously unknown. For some reason it changed to also cover all your recurring or minor illnesses.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by alasdair_ on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:29PM (#27805683)
Part of that is because it’s far cheaper to catch (say) cancer at an early stage and treat it than it is to catch it at stage 3 or 4 and spend potentially millions on a possibly preventable catastrophe.

There is fairly strong evidence that if the cost of routine preventative care isn’t paid by insurance, quite a lot of people opt to skip it because they can’t afford it, leading to worse outcomes.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by jdlshore on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:39PM (#27805737)
> leading to worse outcomes.

Do you have evidence of this part specifically? Because the Oregon Experiment found no improvement in health outcomes in a large randomized trial of low-income recipients of Medicaid. (Partly because their health was generally good in the first place.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Medicaid_health_experim...

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by hanniabu on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:49PM (#27805785)
I had no health insurance so put off on a specialist i needed to see until i could sign up for medicaid (can only apply at the end of the year for some retarded reason). Just putting my issues off for 4 months turned an easy thing to fix into needing to spend the past 8 months in and out of the doctors and hospital.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by Volundr on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:13PM (#27806226)
If the plural of anecdote is data, when the ACA was first rolled out, someone close to me discovered they had colon cancer. They had been having symptoms for quite some time, but had been managing them with home treatment, the first day the had insurance they went to get it checked out. Lucky they did, as devastating as it was (and continues to be, turns out your chemo is brutal and having large sections of your colon removed isn't great either) their doctors already weren't sure they could treat it effectively.

While they credit the ACA with saving their life, had we had some form of socialized medicine from the start, this likely would've been caught much earlier, treated much more easily, and with significantly less long term effects.

I couldn't easily find studies on preventative care leading to better outcomes, but given how many diseases (like cancer for example) can go from easily treatable to a catastrophic nightmare depending on how early they are detected, I find it hard to believe that easy, cheap (or free) access screenings would have no effect on outcomes, though I realize how treacherous it can be to rely on instinct instead of data.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by jdlshore on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:53PM (#27806435)
Counterintuitive as it may be, the Oregon Experiment showed increased costs.

It did show an improvement is psychological outcomes, I presume due to peace of mind, because their wasn’t a corresponding increase in psychiatric medication.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by hanniabu on Monday July 12, 2021 @07:11PM (#27816182)
I imagine this test isn't sufficient because just like with me and this other commenter, many would be going to the doctor to catch up on care they've been missing. Over a longer time period and with having this from the start of your life, I'm sure the costs would end up lower m
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by freeone3000 on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:36AM (#27807379)
Did the increase in cost also come with an increase in outcomes? I don't think it's counterintuitive that people who couldn't afford healthcare see a doctor, you'll see a lot of issues; did we see a decrease in medical issues across the population?
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by jdlshore on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:46AM (#27807433)
No, there was no increase in health outcomes.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by t-writescode on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:25PM (#27805975)
It’s the entire model to Kaiser Permanente, so it’s working for someone.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by WillPostForFood on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:34PM (#27806022)
It’s the entire model

It is part of large complicated model. If it was their entire model they wouldn't be operating medical offices and hospitals. It is the whole package that helps them control costs.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by t-writescode on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:45PM (#27806088)
It is my understanding that obligatory routine care is a major component of Kaiser’s model. In the experience of those I know who use Kaiser, effectively, if they come in for something and their routine checkups are out of date, they’re obligated to get that routine checkup (at the same time due to streamline of service), before they can get what they came in for.

From this, I derived the argument that routine checkups are a *major* component of Kaiser’s system, to the point that, given the flow of discussion, I felt it appropriate to call it “their whole model”. I’m sorry my hyperbole was too far.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by ak217 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:02PM (#27806170)
Kaiser has no specific preventative care requirements and does not withhold care if you are not up to date on some schedule. In fact Kaiser works pretty much exactly like any other HMO with the main difference being that insurance is in-house (but a different department, so insurance screwups still happen, but at least the hospital and the insurance are not constantly fighting each other with you stuck in the middle).

Well that and with Kaiser it's a lot easier to tell who is in network (they never commingle in and out of network care).

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by t-writescode on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:01AM (#27807526)
That's interesting. The person I'm familiar with wasn't allowed to get meds for their strep throat until they went through their regular exams since it had been a year or over one or something. It was all very, very quick, but they were quite serious about getting their regular checks in. The patient in particular was in her 50s at the time, so perhaps that's where the difference comes in?
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by nradov on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:36AM (#27807981)
You're not getting the whole story from that person. Competent providers will strongly recommend preventative care services but patients can always refuse.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by co_pilates on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:08PM (#27806526)
If we had socialized medicine like my local Kaiser, I would be so excited. I honestly haven't been treated anywhere else with the same level of care and concern. I used to hate doctors because of bad experience, but the Kaiser system convinced me to take care of myself on a routine basis. Just one opinion, but thought I'd share.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by ak217 on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:40AM (#27807107)
Glad it worked for you. I've had both good and terrible experiences at Kaiser (in pretty serious circumstances such as major op and post-op experiences), and a similar spectrum at other HMOs. I don't think Kaiser is a panacea, although I agree single-payer looks like the only way to fix the systemic economic issues and Kaiser is a bit closer to that model than other HMOs.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by recursive on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:24PM (#27806625)
I've been on a Kaiser plan for years. I don't think I've ever had a "routine checkup", but have had other services.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by nradov on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:32AM (#27807965)
The Accountable Care Act (Obamacare) requires most health plans to cover several screening services at no cost to the patient.

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/preventive-care-benefits...

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by acdha on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:42PM (#27805750)
It’d help a little but it’d still be a long way from an Econ 101 market. Preventative care is hugely effective at reducing costs but high-deductible plans ensure that many people will not get it.

Many people simply aren’t capable of shopping around, either: emergency care, cognitive impairments, limited geographic options, and the conflicts of interest inherent to for-profit medicine all make it hard for people to know what they need and whether it’s worth the money. As with preventative care, making it harder to get treatment is certain to lead to many people not getting problems treated prior to them becoming major.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by warble on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:45PM (#27805764)
You don't need everyone shopping around. You just need enough to drive the market, it isn't even necessarily a majority.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by acdha on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:59PM (#27805834)
Kind of like how list price means everyone pays the same price for a car? What would happen is more of what we already see: tons of addons being pushed, rebates or other ways to adjust prices for some people without lowering them, random specialists and unnecessary services being pulled in relying on the fact that most people don’t realize they can and should say no, and a whole industry of people finding ways to say you had some obscure complications not covered by the standard price.

Look at it from an economic incentive standpoint: Americans pay 2-3 times more for the same service. That is a huge amount of money, and it ensures that rooms full of smart people will be working to ensure that their employers continue to get it.

Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by bushbaba on Monday July 12, 2021 @10:46AM (#27810801)
Flip side you can actually shop around for the best car price. Can’t even do that at us hospitals
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by acdha on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:13PM (#27811790)
Exactly - it’s not a normal market and there are hard limits preventing it from ever working like that, no matter how many people desperately try to pretend otherwise because it’s personally profitable for them.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by riverlaw2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:33PM (#27805704)
I agree with your take. I work in the industry. The for some reason has partly to do with the U.S. tying insurance to your employer and not charging taxes. It makes sense to offer as much as possible pretax.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by epistasis on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:22PM (#27805656)
I'm not so sure. There's a lot of waste in all of our health care system, and many areas are served by few care providers. Transparency on prices without effective competition won't change much.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by spaetzleesser on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:13PM (#27805913)
You have to start somewhere. Knowable prices are the first prerequisite for markets.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by epistasis on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:24PM (#27806277)
That's an excellent point! It can't hurt, and might help. I don't know why I felt negatively about it at first, anything to start disrupting the bad parts of the system should be welcome.
Re:Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big A... by ClumsyPilot on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:55PM (#27805813)
If the customer won't be told the price and can't opt out, it's not market, it's a racket.