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Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by opportune on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:22PM (#27777119)
A close family member has stage 4 cancer.

Even if the absolute death rates for some cancers are relatively unchanged, one of the amazing things I’ve observed is that medical advances have increased the long term survival rates of terminal/metastaticized cancers. It’s partially due to the development of various drugs that have been identified as effective against various specific mutations. Even if the cancer is incurable with existing technology, they can extend lives by years, which is nothing to sneeze at. Especially considering many people get diagnosed with cancer once they are elderly already, it can mean the difference between dying directly of cancer and living long enough to die of something else - ie the cancer becomes something more like a chronic condition than it does a direct threat (for a period of time).

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by throwaway894345 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:47PM (#27777403)
One of the interesting developments is precision medicine: we can now use genomic sequencing and AI to "search" for the treatment that is most likely to be effective against a particular individual's cancer rather than following the rough "standard of care" playbook (for example, depending on the type of cancer, the standard of care might be 6 months of chemo, and if that doesn't work try something else, repeat until cancer goes away or patient dies). The precision medicine approach at this point seems to be among the things that we try if the standard of care doesn't work, but hopefully one day it will be step one (chemo sucks and it is an expensive use of precious time). In addition to searching for treatments, we can also search for clinical trials for which a patient is a good fit--this helps both the research side (it's very hard to find qualified patients) and possibly patients who don't have better options (and of course the research itself benefits future cancer patients).
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by hanniabu on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:32PM (#27777853)
This sounds like something insurance will either refuse to cover for being expensive or make you try 5 other approaches first before agreeing to cover it, at which point it'll probably be too late.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by sjg007 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:24PM (#27778357)
Unlikely. It will rule out treatments that are unlikely to work, saving money. What we are seeing is Simpson’s paradox. Genomics and precision medicine allow you to segment populations at a higher resolution then before.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by riboflavin123 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:37PM (#27778487)
It may rule them out. But many standard-of-care chemo drugs are quite cheap.

When I had leukemia, my first rounds of chemo used cheap drugs. (The drugs were far cheaper than the daily hospitalization costs, which was required due to drugs obliterating the immune system.) The insurance company didn't require any oversight into the process.

But once the chemo stopped working and a much more expensive treatment was needed, the insurance company became quite a pest. I'm fortunate have saved a lot of money, so I didn't delay treatment until insurance approved it. (The 2-3 weeks between treatment starting and the final approval from insurance may have actually made a difference between life-and-death when dealing with aggressive leukemia.)

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by sjg007 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:43PM (#27778537)
I’m glad you’re here and a survivor of that hell. Yes, what you are describing is a very real problem. It’s something we need congressional action on. Call it a surprise medical bill but more rather a surprise insurance denial. I am no stranger to insurance battles…

I actually should have put it differently. Precision medicine will bring new treatments to the standard of care because we will be able to find the correct drug for you or me.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by jghn on Thursday July 08, 2021 @09:23PM (#27779558)
Exactly. Insurance companies are very interested in Real World Data (RWD) around genomic based treatments. By using those data they can have a better sense of which patients would be likely to respond to which drugs, and steer treatment that way.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by Gibbon1 on Friday July 09, 2021 @03:30AM (#27781295)
There another reason for genomic tests they also rule out the need for treatment. Either the tumor is benign or very low grade cancer.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by throwaway894345 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:43PM (#27777975)
To the extent this is true today, I suspect it's precisely because the precision medicine approach is not yet the standard. I.e., insurance companies want you to do the standard of care, but if/when precision medicine _becomes_ the standard then insurance companies will embrace it (or that's my hypothesis, anyway).
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by xwdv on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:52PM (#27778069)
This is partly why it’s important to save for retirement so you can be well capitalized to fund such treatments on your own if they should become necessary.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by pilotneko on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:09PM (#27778230)
Small consolation, but I believe GINA should prevent that behavior. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/g...
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by chefkoch on Friday July 09, 2021 @02:40AM (#27781035)
How much will a bit of sequencing and CPU time cost? 5k what genomic sequencing for other cancers cost is peanuts in cancer care. There are many drugs where one infusion (of many needed) is more expensive than that.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by gregwebs on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:05PM (#27777610)
> repeat until cancer goes away or patient dies

This sounds very similar to participating in a clinical trial and to me ironically seems to be the opposite of precision medicine.

The Nagourney Cancer Institute cultures live cancer cells from the patient to test for what drugs may work. Doesn't work for everyone, but seems more in line with precision. Whereas genomic sequencing hasn't produced the amazing results that were expected.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by throwaway894345 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:12PM (#27777674)
> This sounds very similar to participating in a clinical trial and to me ironically seems to be the opposite of precision medicine.

yes, to be clear this is a description of "standard of care" in which oncologists follow a playbook based on the type of cancer. Precision medicine (as I, a lay person, understand it) involves picking a treatment that is very likely to work based on an individual's genes, the genes of their tumor, their past medical history, and other relevant factors. The idea is to use all available information to identify the treatment that is the most likely to succeed for that individual.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by chefkoch on Friday July 09, 2021 @02:45AM (#27781054)
> The Nagourney Cancer Institute cultures live cancer cells from the patient to test for what drugs may work.

That assumes you have time for this. Very often treatment is started within days or even hours of diagnosis.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by deepzn on Friday July 09, 2021 @12:30AM (#27780491)
Figuring out the costs, and who's going to pay for it is one thing, and it's serious - I hope we find solutions there. But, in terms of being gamechangers, my hope is in 10-20 years we will be able to identify genes causing cancer mutations and use CRISPR to edit them out. All this will need massive breakthroughs in leveraging AI , ML and Big Data. Hope we can put an end to Cancer this century at the latest, would prefer it sooner in my lifetime, but I know this is our (humans) ultimate rival /enemy in the game of Life.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by chiefofstuffs on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:36PM (#27778474)
I'm in a similar situation. Partially have self-serving hope, but agreed that the game is starting to shift. The goal is now to buy enough time with the current drug you can move to the next version. So if you get 3 years from the drug and new ones come out every 2, you might get to die of something else.

Also aggregated death rates will always lag if treatments are improving.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by t3po7re5 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:57PM (#27778644)
Yep, its all about staying ahead of the curve
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Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by gambiting on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:36PM (#27777892)
Are you kidding me?????

My dad was diagnosed with a very rare type of stomach cancer called GIST at 42. The average survivability at that stage for GIST at that time was 6-12 months. Zero patients lived more than 5 years.

He was given experimental(at the time) drug called Glivec as it was being tested specifically against GIST and it was literally one of these "there's nothing else, so might as well".

He lived another 8 years after that, until cancer came back and the drugs stopped working.

When he was first diagnosed I was a teenager, my sister was a child - thanks to this drug he was able to see his kids go into adulthood, and obviously spend 8 more years with his wife.

How is that "ain't much"??????

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by adventured on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:34PM (#27778450)
> How is that "ain't much"?

Whether four or eight years, either is an enormous gift when facing a terminal illness. There is no question about it. It's even more so the case if a person is 40 years old than if they're 80. The 80 year old has already lived a full life, death is far more acceptable, tolerable, at that age for most people.

I suspect a person would have had to have never seen a loved one confront a terminal illness, to believe a year of additional time isn't a lot given the context.

My mother died relatively young from small cell lung cancer. At the time there were no specific therapies for it, it was often caught late, and typically a person would die within 6-12 months. Almost nobody would make it more than three years. She lived for around 20 months post diagnosis, and that was a lot of very valuable time, even if it wasn't enough time.

I've observed across my lifetime that some people live more in a year than other people manage to in a decade.

How quickly time passes objectively and how we experience time are obviously two different things. Perhaps the skeptical parent was failing to grasp the significance of the difference. When facing a terminal illness, how you experience time is drastically altered, even if the seconds tick by as they did before.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by scottshamus on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:48PM (#27778036)
I appreciate you taking the time to tell your story. It’s easy to view expensive treatments that only extend someone’s life by a year or two as too costly but those remaining years can be the most important for that person and their friends/family.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by jhgb on Thursday July 08, 2021 @10:10PM (#27779805)
To be honest, eight years is not what I'd imagine as "a few". That's actually quite a lot.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by gambiting on Friday July 09, 2021 @08:04AM (#27782808)
Yes, of course, but the point is that it wasn't known at the time when he was prescribed treatment. A "good" case for him would have been living another year, maybe two if lucky. The drug was experimental after all, and that it actually worked and gave him another 8 years of life was a huge medical achievement.
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Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by ncallaway on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:36PM (#27778480)
> Speaking of the number 4, awesome my comment already at -4, which is the cap.

I cannot believe how flippantly you're responding to someone who told the story of their dad passing away due to cancer, and yet you have the gall to also whine about downvotes.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by angrais on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:33PM (#27778435)
Yes, but cancer is not a solved problem, and so people will get it and eventually die. Also, who cares if people live 40+ years? Those with cancer statistically don't, yet drugs can increase life expectancy. That's the point.

An extra day with your loved ones is paradise. Taking a drug and potentially gaining years?

Come on mate, it's not a surprise you're being downvoted as your attitude is a disgrace.

Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by selimthegrim on Thursday July 08, 2021 @08:31PM (#27779297)
I doubt Sesame Street is going to hire you with that attitude.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by riboflavin123 on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:56PM (#27778642)
You can't fold every individual into some sort of "average" case when the individualism isn't favorable. The universe doesn't work that way.
Re:Death rates are declining for many common cancers in the ... by xarope on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:27PM (#27778382)
if you measure in terms of percentage, sure. But not everything is statistical... considering that this 40 year old has not planned to be not-around so soon, these few extra years might allow this 40 year old to sort out and settle certain affairs that would allow them and their family to part with more "acceptance".