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Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by partomniscient on Sunday July 04, 2021 @10:55AM (#27730082)
When you consider business is ultimately about making money in which something has to give/lose out, and social connectivity is about hanging out with people you like - you realise these things don't go together and monetising socialisation is what dooms (what used to be) a good experience in the end.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by Grimm1 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:07AM (#27730198)
You can monetize socialization we've done it forever, clubs come to mind for instance. No one wants to pay directly for social media unlike in person experiences though so we have what we have.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by partomniscient on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:27AM (#27730369)
That's because monetisation via serving food/alcohol sales (in moderation) can enhance the socialisation experience, so its a win-win.

Because big media got hooked on advertising revenue and news became subsidised and we got news/information cheaply, we'd been collectively taught that fact generation and dispersion costs were neglible (although they're not, work and energy is required and this was offset by the ad. revenue).

Move this to the digital space where information flows at close to light speed and you can accurately measure all sorts of marketing stuff - it just goes faster to the point of absurdity. Whatever value we can create via connectivity gets trashed by being subverted or obverted by corporate interests.

I'm now pissed off because I pay youtube $x per month not to be interrupted by ads, and now the content creators have their own ads in their content.

When you scale out, it becomes a sad picture of humanity that is excitedly self-reinforcing monetisation of things via interruption of engagement/continuity.

Actual value is evapourating.

No wonder we're all getting ADHD.

The spaces that are mostly simple and left alone are where interesting things can still continually occur. That's precisely why HN is actually still going strong.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by Grimm1 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @12:39PM (#27730902)
I agree with you, I find size is a predictor of decline in quality. HN hasn't hit that threshold, but even still I know that with what growth it has had the moderation efforts to keep it this way also increased significantly.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by ItsMonkk on Sunday July 04, 2021 @01:45PM (#27731354)
It's Dunbar's Number.

When a tribe gets to large, because of Metcalfe's law the tribe loses the ability to discuss things to a level of nuance that is required, and that causes fractures that lead to a tribal split.

Because all of the internet communities have no natural way to split, the only thing left is for them to become toxic and eventually die.

Systems attempt to keep the tribe going longer by attempting to keep track of metrics, and this works for a while because the tribe had built up trust, but the bigger the tribe gets(with new members never trusting, forming Eternal September), the more the metrics reign, Goodhart's law states the more inevitable it is that it collapses.

> ... there seems to be only one cause behind all forms of social misery: bigness. Oversimplified as this may seem, we shall find the idea more easily acceptable if we consider that bigness, or oversize, is really much more than just a social problem. It appears to be the one and only problem permeating all creation. Whenever something is wrong, something is too big. ... And if the body of a people becomes diseased with the fever of aggression, brutality, collectivism, or massive idiocy, it is not because it has fallen victim to bad leadership or mental derangement. It is because human beings, so charming as individuals or in small aggregations, have been welded into overconcentrated social units. - Leopold Kohr, 1957

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by pharke on Sunday July 04, 2021 @03:50PM (#27732125)
No one will pay to hang out in an empty room just because other people are there. They pay to go to clubs and bars because they provide entertainment, food, drinks, and atmosphere to go along with the social experience. If you created a rich enough social media experience then people would be fine paying for it. It's not surprising people don't want to pay for social media as it currently exists since it parasitizes all of its content from the web which is for the most part freely available. It's like fencing off a corner of a public park and trying to charge admission to enjoy the fresh air and sunshine.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by amelius on Sunday July 04, 2021 @01:17PM (#27731152)
That's because clubs do not interfere with the things we say to one another. Also they are not monopolies, so they can't experiment freely without risking us going to another club.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by polynomial on Sunday July 04, 2021 @06:59PM (#27733295)
Well, yes and no. The music in clubs is often designed to be so loud as to interfere in conversation, on the premise that the less you are able to converse the more you will drink.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by skinkestek on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:20AM (#27730309)
> No one wants to pay directly for social media unlike in person experiences though so we have what we have.

For the longest time I paid for MeWe, hoping they'd introduce pseudonyms and become a non Google Google+.

I would actually have paid for Google+ too if they had kept it around.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by Grimm1 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @12:41PM (#27730912)
Why did you stop paying for MeWe? Just the lack of pseudonym introduction?
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by skinkestek on Monday July 05, 2021 @04:06AM (#27735621)
No, I never needed the paid features in the first place.

I only paid to support a good cause and in the hope that it would become a replacement for Google+.

After a year or two where they never responded to feedback I just gave up.

I don't need another place to worry about leaking my identity connected to deeply personal issues.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by CRConrad on Sunday July 04, 2021 @07:32PM (#27733469)
Either that, or perhaps the huge influx of far-right sympathizers.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by skinkestek on Monday July 05, 2021 @03:58AM (#27735577)
I saw no such influx but then again I was only into chili growing, general gardening, photography and that kind of stuff.

I'd like to discuss mental health issues as well but personally I don't feel like posting to ADHD or anything when my family or my boss or my future boss can trivially easy (two clicks, no mental gymnastics) go from my post there to my professional profile.

Besides, the term "far-right" is so utterly abused now that it doesn't mean anything except "people I don't like".

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by CRConrad on Monday July 05, 2021 @06:17PM (#27742322)
Well, good for you that you didn't see that. I, OTOH, definitely did.

And, hey, would you have been happier if I'd called them Nazis?

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by CRConrad on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @11:31AM (#27749884)
Replying to myself for technical reasons: People who bring up how Hitler and the Nazis were "actually Socialists"... are usually actually Nazis.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by Const-me on Sunday July 04, 2021 @01:31PM (#27731242)
I paid for livejournal.com social media for a few years, then Russians bought the company and I cancelled.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by merpnderp on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:26AM (#27730357)
People definitely used to pay for online socialization they’d just prefer free with advertisements.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by hsdjofk on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:14AM (#27730263)
>When you consider business is ultimately about making money in which something has to give/lose out...

This is the opposite of what I learned in Econ 101. People voluntarily transact because both parties stand to benefit - otherwise one party would choose to sit out.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by partomniscient on Sunday July 04, 2021 @01:31PM (#27731246)
That's because you're talking about value, whereas I was talking about money. You can also benefit timewise but lose monetarily and vice versa...hence 'time is money'.

Money is meant to represent equivalence of value but it doesn't do this very precisely or well - which is why using it to 'measure' things causes so many problems.

I get where you're coming from, but that's Econ 101 idealism where you assume both parties are fully knowledgable about everything regarding the transaction - the real world is not like this. People also naively transact simply because they've been taught to do so.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by dejj on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:14AM (#27730260)
> monetising socialisation

Cafés and restaurants handle this well. I think it is because they “commoditize their complement”[1], i.e. you’re allowed to talk while you consume. (Not too loud, though.)

[1] https://www.gwern.net/Complement

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by chmod775 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @11:37AM (#27730449)
A restaurant exists explicitly to serve food first. If you're still there an hour after paying your bill, they'll start asking polite questions.

A café, in most places, is a place for hanging out that makes money on the assumption that people will like refreshments, snacks or even small meals while doing so. They're typically not going to ask you to leave just because you haven't gotten anything in an hour or two (unless they're full). The exception appears to be some places where coffeehouses think they're a theme park ride.

Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by morpheos137 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @01:28PM (#27731214)
The current situation is like if 90% of bar or restaurant patrons went to one of three multinational chains all of which secretly recorded patron conversations in order to sell ads while giving away cheap food.
Re:Social media is broken – a new report offers ways to fix it by ipaddr on Sunday July 04, 2021 @04:47PM (#27732502)
We would all go there for the free / cheap food if the place wasn't so crowded.

How do you beat free / cheap food?