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Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by throwaway6734 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @09:45AM (#27729570)
>Software engineers in all other major countries earns about $30K - $60K on average. These countries include: Japan, China, Australia, Germany, Canada.

How are salaries so low there? How do they plan on having competitive tech markets?

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by yardie on Sunday July 04, 2021 @10:45AM (#27729989)
In my experience, as an American expat working in the EU, these countries have an extremely low level of churn. In most cases the only way to get a raise is to be hired away. So most developers put up with the annual CoL raise of 3-5%. Instead of changing companies every 2 years with a $10k-50k bump you stay 10 years in one company and eventually get a $10k over that period.

I know most Americans feel its the strong worker protections in the EU that cause the pay stagnation. It's far more complex than that. SWEs can leave for another company whenever they want. In some cases there are deep structural issues* that can keep you at a company.

* One example, in France there is no upper limit on the caution for an apartment. It can be as high as 20k-50k€. If you need to rent a place and don't come from a rich family your employer can provide the caution. Now that your employer has solved your housing problem you feel a certain loyalty to them and the 10-20 year career starts.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by KptMarchewa on Sunday July 04, 2021 @07:21PM (#27733421)
That does not feel true to me in Poland. I'd say average is close to what's expressed here on HN, about 2 years in a job. More junior people switch more often, and more senior less often - but also can switch pretty fast if the job is not a good fit. I don't think worker rights play a role here, because I've never seen software engineer being fired for a purely performance reason.
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by cherryturnover on Sunday July 04, 2021 @07:22PM (#27733422)
>It can be as high as 20k-50k€.

Meanwhile in NYC they're knocking off few months rent and dropping the security deposits just to get people back there.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by yardie on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:17AM (#27737654)
A caution isn't a security deposit (that you pay as well) it's just attestation you have a healthy amount of savings; in lieu of a credit score. French eviction laws are strict and intentionally slow so it can take 6+ months for a removal order. Landlords want assurances you won't turn into a squatter, so having a longterm, secure job or rich family checks that box.
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by heavenlyblue on Sunday July 04, 2021 @04:26PM (#27732340)
What is the caution for an appartment?
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by DaveExeter on Sunday July 04, 2021 @04:49PM (#27732512)
caution bancaire (fr) = Bank guarantee (en)

Like a security deposit.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by serial_dev on Sunday July 04, 2021 @10:04AM (#27729700)
These numbers don't seem to be correct. I have around 5 years experience, living in Munich, immigrant, and I earn around 95K (USD). There is no indication that my salary is significantly above average amongst software developers with similar experience. Not a FAANG company, and I earned this money both at a startup and both at an established German company.
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by fuzzy2 on Sunday July 04, 2021 @10:23AM (#27729827)
Munich is very expensive so you get appropriate money. Rural areas pull down the average a lot.

As a software engineer (not architect, senior, team lead or whatever) your salary is at the very top.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by monkeybutton on Sunday July 04, 2021 @10:05AM (#27729710)
Its a struggle.

>graduates from the Universities of Toronto, British Columbia and Waterloo in 2015 and 2016 revealed 66 per cent of software engineering and 30 per cent of computer science students were leaving Canada for work after graduation.

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/business/2021/5/21/1_543849...

I wonder how accurate the quoted average salaries are for Canada though. The high end is what a junior developer with no work history can expect after graduating. Senior developers here regularly make 100k+.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by kyawzazaw on Sunday July 04, 2021 @08:28PM (#27733726)
As a new grad down the border, you can make more than that.
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by rmah on Sunday July 04, 2021 @09:55AM (#27729654)
They're not, the author's assumptions are out of date. $30k is what a mid-level software engineer at a major firm in India will make.