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Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:32PM (#27715062)
>There are all kinds of ways doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies conspire to drain your pockets

People also want cutting edge care from some of the smartest and most highly educated people in the world (which is in short supply) for cheap.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by Goronmon on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:41PM (#27715175)
People also want cutting edge care from some of the smartest and most highly educated people in the world (which is in short supply) for cheap.

Actually, people just want someone to help them with their health issues and not treat them like shit.

Sure, I guess you could find people with the above attitude, but it's mostly a straw man you are using to deflect responsibility from the health industry.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by wahern on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:03PM (#27715443)
There are HMOs, like Kaiser, that solve most of these problems. Unless I'm traveling, I would never have to worry about such extraneous bills. However, for any particular serious condition a particular HMO might not have the top-rated team in the country. This unreasonable fear is used by non-HMO insurance networks to draw customers.

Perhaps what we need is something like the WTO's most-favored-nation rule for domestic insurers, but imposed statutorily. If you're treating an out-of-network patient extemporaneously, you can only charge that person's insurer at the lowest rate you'd charge an in-network provider.

This would remove the incentive for out-of-network providers to eagerly provide many services. That has its own downsides, of course, but it might help to resolve many of these billing nightmares.

But, heck, maybe something like that already exists. Obamacare (aka ACA) comprehensively thought through many of these dilemmas. But enforcement has been gutted by the GOP.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by mikepurvis on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:18PM (#27716360)
In 99% of cases, you don't need or want cutting edge care— you need basic, efficient, timely care. The rest of the world manages to deliver that as a basic human right.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by brutus1213 on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:47PM (#27717831)
Yes .. but. Canada is often pointed at by Americans as an example of a functioning healthcare system. I can tell you we have many problems, but they are different. It might mean long queues for basic diagnostics/assessments/procedures, facilities that look ugly, excessive waits in the ER, and still paying an arm and a leg for medication. I have heard of great experiences in Canada but also pretty terrible ones.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by mikepurvis on Friday July 02, 2021 @11:47PM (#27719201)
I'm a Canadian too. Maybe I've just been lucky, but when I or anyone in my family has needed urgent care, I've never felt like I had to wait excessive amounts of time for it.

As far as whether facilities could be "nicer", I mean... maybe? I actually kind of prefer healthcare to be like schools in this way— if I don't think it's nice enough for me, then I need to lobby the province to collect more taxes and make it nicer for everyone rather than just taking my dollars elsewhere.

And that doesn't even address the whole billing-surprise angle. I would happily wait forever if the alternative was not knowing if I was going to randomly be stuck with a $10M bill.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by dragonwriter on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:50PM (#27717847)
> Canada is often pointed at by Americans as an example of a functioning healthcare system.

To be fair, Americans have a very low standard for “functioning healthcare system” due to the American healthcare system.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by rajup on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:52PM (#27715314)
Wrong. YOU might want cutting edge care from the smartest and most highly educated people in the world (not sure where you get this from however, healthcare in most of the developed world is equally good). Most people want decent care that does not involve them worrying that the next healthcare bill will bankrupt them. I highly doubt ludicrous hospital bills are a necessity to getting "cutting edge care", if so something is definitely broken (and is).
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by heavyset_go on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:35PM (#27715093)
When I lived in Manhattan and worked with some really wealthy clients, they'd fly to France, Israel and elsewhere for care when they could have easily gotten the best care the US has to offer right down the street.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by mokus on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:42PM (#27715180)
Personally, I just want to know the cost of services before committing to pay. I have been unable to get that in many situations, even for non-emergency care.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:52PM (#27715313)
I do too. A doctor should be able to give you the codes for whatever routine or preventative procedure you’re interested in paying for, and you should be able to look up the price on your insurance company’s website.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by nradov on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:07PM (#27716214)
It's not that simple. Doctors themselves often don't even know which billing codes will be used; coding is done by other office staff. And insurers don't have a single set price list. The patient's out of pocket expense will depend on a medical necessity determination and whether they have reached their annual maximum.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:21PM (#27716403)
That is why I specified for routine or preventative procedures, where everything is known beforehand.

I also do not buy that doctors do not know which code will be used. I don’t care if the doctor themself does not know, surely someone that works with them knows and can provide it.

It should be dead simple to go to a doctor’s website and find the codes for routine procedure that they will bill. If something in the visit happens outside of that, the doctor can feel free to say that is outside of the scope of the visit, just like a mechanic can tell me he will not fix the transmission if I am in for a brake job.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by Arrath on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:36PM (#27715105)
There is a pretty large continuum of potential value between the 'cheap' care that people want, and the ruinous bills that get charged.
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:45PM (#27715220)
Ruinous bills are frequently used to cover the costs of routine procedures. It’s another situation where 10% of the healthcare consumes 90% of the resources. It’s the person who needs 6 months in the hospital, the 2 month premature baby in NICU, the hemophiliac that needs $1M medication that balloon all the costs.

And no one can really afford that, but instead of spreading the costs around to all taxpayers, we were spreading it around by inflating everything else. ACA helps with this, but today’s announcement about out of network care will help more too.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by Goronmon on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:44PM (#27715210)
There is a pretty large continuum of potential value between the 'cheap' care that people want, and the ruinous bills that get charged.

That can't be true, everyone knows that people are only greedy and stupid, and it's really the citizens' fault for the prices of the current healthcare setup. The industry itself is all made up of kind-hearted super heroes who would never think of manipulating prices to syphon more money from patients.

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by mahathu on Friday July 02, 2021 @02:59PM (#27715399)
Are American doctors really smarter than Dutch or Swedish doctors?
Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by lotsofpulp on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:25PM (#27715723)
The context is Americans getting healthcare, so Americans would be choosing from people in America.

I would also point to the unnecessarily arduous and lengthy process of becoming a doctor in the US as one of the US system’s problems.

If I’m going to be asked to sacrifice all of my 20s and maybe early 30s and worked on 24 hour shifts during the prime of my life, I am also going to be making sure I get paid a ton for it. Otherwise, I would choose a different career.

I know a lot of doctors that advise their kids to not pursue medicine even if they want to do it, simply because the cost benefit is not worth it anymore (if you have other options).

Re:HHS announces rule to protect consumers from surprise med... by kube-system on Friday July 02, 2021 @03:31PM (#27715792)
They’re probably comparable, but one advantage, no doubt due to our high costs, is that US hospitals tend to have a ton of resources and the latest equipment. This does make a difference if you have a condition that benefits from cutting edge treatments.

I recently had a family member get surgery for a life threatening condition where a cutting edge treatment greatly reduces complications. The equipment only exists in a small number of hospitals on the planet and their normal hospital, which wasn’t even a particularly fancy US hospital, had one. It's probably not an issue for small and rich countries though. Probably more-so for medium income countries.