You don't deserve those downvotes. I think you ask a great question!

I chose to have kids, but one of my best friends chose not to have kids. I sometimes regret it (though never seriously), he deeply regrets it. He had a lot of cool stuff and got to travel the world for many years, which I always wished I could do too. He was always doing fun stuff, even as simple as going on beer runs on the weekend (literally the club he was in would drink beer and go running. They had a blast). In his early 50s his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer. During that period both he and her went through profound regret. She would pass on nothing, and he would be completely alone when she was gone.

I also firmly believe that there is a level of growth/maturity that you can't reach without going through the crucible of kids. I have never met a person who didn't say that having kids was one of the hardest things they ever did but helped them grow and see life in a different way like nothing else could.

Also don't forget the Michael Scott reason for having kids: they can't say no to being your friend[1]

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/DunderMifflin/comments/20u728/i_wan...

I've got a 14 month year old. The daily grind is relentless. But it's not miserable. I've watched a tiny helpless creature turn into a curious little person who can walk around and play with things, who gives me big smiles and hugs when he sees me, who takes real joy in such stupid things (current obsession: bike helmets). It's hard to quantify why that's a good thing - much like to many of my friends the idea of voluntarily spending an evening writing software that's different to the stuff I do at work all day also seems completely crazy.

Sure, there's low points, but there's also high points every single day.

But how did you decide that this is what you wanted? It is a big, life-changing decision to make. Did you wake up one morning and think, 'you know what, having a child would really make my life a lot better'? Or had you been looking forward to becoming a parent from an early age, and were just looking for the right time?

E.g. I certainly didn't even think of it when I was 16 - I was dreaming of other things. Nothing much changed at 25. In my 30s, I am only considering it because it is part of the 'life script' and 'now or never' kind of situation, not because I can't wait to do it. Was it different for you? In an ideal world, I would maybe do it when I'm retired in my late 50s and 60s. I.e. I would prefer to skip children and go straight to grandchildren.

It's an interesting question - I'm not sure there was ever a lightbulb moment. I think I've always thought "I will have kids some day" - even as a teenager. How much of that is just following the societal norms I don't know. I enjoy playing with kids though - maybe that contributed to that feeling. I'd say by the time I was 26 or 27 I was fairly sure I wanted kids soon (helped by being in a stable long term relationship). I was 29 when my son was born.

One thing you become aware of quite quickly when you start seriously looking into kids is that the biological realities are much harsher than society leads you to believe. Having kids when the mum is much over 35 gets really difficult really quickly. Once I realised that, knowing that I did want children eventually, it made the decision to expedite things easier. I decided I'd rather make the leap sooner than regret it.

I don't think it's a very logical decision though - interestingly I think a lot of the people I know with children today were quite impulsive and of-the-moment in their early 20s. The more sensible ones haven't had kids yet - perhaps because it's hard to make a reasoned decision about it.

For me it played a big role that I wanted my kids to have grandparents for as long as possible, since I lost mine relatively early. Also the other way around, for my parents it is nice to have grandchildren now too.

Sure, these are valid considerations once you have decided to have children. It is the 'how' and 'why' of even deciding to have children that I am curious about.

I mean, were you in your early 20s, grinding leetcode, thinking "can't wait to become a parent"? Or was it more of "I want to have had children when I am 65, so even though I'm not over the moon about it right now it is what it is, I'll just go with it"? Or "all my friends and relatives are doing it, so it never even occurred to me that I had other options"?

The closest thing to "reasonable" I can remember about wanting to have kids was about introducing a few more reasonable creatures into the world, something like preventing the "Idiocracy". :)

In general, I did have an innate plan to reproduce at some point in the future from early on (my 20s), potentially because of social norms (then again, my sister didn't), or maybe because of my ego (I'll be bringing smarter-than-average, decent-physical-specimen humans into the world, even though by the time I had kids, I learned that "reasonable" and "empathetic" are probably more important).

Thanks! To me it sounds like a TON of effort, a HUGE change for a very long time - for an ego thing.

Now if, say, my wife wanted to handle 90% of the work, with me primarily responsible for breadwinning and little else - a 'traditional' family - I could understand making such a big decision on what looks to me as very weak reasoning. Because then it wouldn't even be THAT big a decision to me anymore, as MY life would not be changing all that much.

But assuming a true 50/50 split in responsibilities? And wife feeling the same about all these things as I do? To me, much much stronger reasons are required than what motivated you, as you would be changing your life completely, with no going back, committing for a very long time. Not to mention the HUGE financial commitment (say goodbye to financial independence and therefore being able to do independent research/projects in the future). And that's the best case scenario of healthy, not-too-unreasonable children.

You've quickly become judgemental — which suggests that your question was not really honest, but rather argumentative, looking for support of your position — just saying how it appears! ;-)

People do a lot of things I consider "romantic": fighting for freedom, fairness, human rights... They only benefit them in the long run, and many not even benefit from them directly. I've done my share as well.

It's the same with kids. You asked about reasons to decide to have them, not about what I am getting out of it (you were very explicit in responses to others about how you didn't care about how they decided on "when", for example).

I fully expected that I will develop relationship with my kids that will overcome everything, and so far I have! Which is why I was willing to dive into the huge time, money and effort investment after the initial reasons! But it was not the reason to have them.

You are perfectly allowed to spend the same effort on building relationship with others, and it might or might not (I have no idea) get you the same satisfaction I get from interacting with my kids.

Yes, I was concerned I would come across that way - sorry if I did, just a reflection of the arguments I have with myself :)

Thank you for your replies and hope it all goes well for you!

To further clarify, the "ego" thing was a bit overstressed — my point is that I was hoping to bring better-than-average human beings into this planet, and "my ego" is my explanation for why I believe they'd be better-than-average.

I didn't expect to want to.

My wife originally wanted to, and like you, I was... reticent. My feelings at the time seem similar to yours here.

All I can say is, having a solid partner -- one that I can absolutely count on, and believe in -- helped me unwind. I was able to set aside my original concerns and think long-term.

Here's where we may differ: I've always loved playing with kids. There's something magical about seeing them learn things, interact with the world for the first time, and to just screw around and enjoy life without the normal adult concerns. After all, when you're a kid, you have endless time and all you want to do is play. Chilling with kids and playing games with them has always appealed to me.

There's also a stigma attached to that, when you're a male. If I was female, lots of people would feel "Oh, that's cute!" but when you're a man, I inevitably felt like I should hide that aspect of myself. After all, everyone knows that it's dangerous or creepy for older men to hang around with kids, right?

It wasn't till my wife's sister had kids of their own that I was able to get over this. Once they got to 2yo or so, it all clicked for me. I remember playing the "colors" game with Eloise -- she was quizzing me about the different crayon colors, and it was so cool to watch her learn about orange. I don't remember exactly what she learned, but it was sort of an "aha" moment of orange being halfway between yellow and red.

From then on, I was sold, and decided I wanted kids of my own. Wiping their butts and being woken up with screams will just be a part of the process for me, and I won't mind at all. (Easy to say that now, I'm sure.) But, for example, you probably feel the same way about cleaning out the litterbox for your kitty; an annoyance, sure, but it's a labor of love.

That labor of love is a strength for me. It's what allowed me to ultimately be fine with abandoning my old (current) way of life and return to "the daily grind," as people might like to call it. My wife and I have been trying to have kids for a couple years, and haven't had success. I always felt like, well, whenever the kids come around, I'll go get a traditional job and be family guy. But then one night, I realized "You know, IVF is hugely expensive. I could go get a job right now, and we'd save up enough to get it done within just a few months."

It wasn't an easy decision, but once I made it, it was easy to follow. I want some kiddos to teach things to, hang out with, and occasionally learn from. My motives are no more complicated than that.

You'll feel differently. If you're young, all I can say is, expect yourself to change over time. The only thing you can count on is that how you feel today probably won't be your feelings forever.

If you're less young, then there's really nothing wrong with not having kids. There's a stigma against that too, which I think is bogus. It's simply a question of what you want out of life.

By the time http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html came out, I was nodding along with that entire essay. Perhaps it'll help elucidate some of the feelings here. But a simpler way to put it is, "one day something activated in my brain -- some kind of primal instinct -- and from then till now, the desire to have kids has been a source of strength."

Thanks, this makes the most sense. However, I do wonder if there is a difference between playing/teaching nieces and nephews that you can hand back any time, and doing it all the time. Kind of like the difference between visiting a place as a tourist and actually moving to live there.

I would probably want to 'borrow' some relative kids for 2-3 weeks while they go on holidays, and see how the whole thing works - not just the fun parts - before I would be willing to commit to it. I do not mean you here, but it always surprises me how lightly people - otherwise very careful and responsible - take the most important and consequential decision of their life.

You sound like a thoughtful person.

> I do wonder if there is a difference between playing/teaching nieces and nephews that you can hand back any time, and doing it all the time.

I think you're right about this.

Just remember, it's totally fine if you decide you don't want kids. It's usually a bad idea to feel pressured into it.

I'd be curious to hear what you end up choosing. Feel free to shoot me a DM on twitter or email me, even if it's a few years from now. (But only if you'd like to, of course.) Also, if you want to chat more about this sometime, definitely reach out; this topic is quite interesting to me.

Best of luck to you.