News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by dflock on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:50AM (#27684987)
That sucks. Nice write-up of how this scam works, I wasn't aware of the details previously.

Also, if anyone is unaware, this is this Clifford Stoll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Stoll - who wrote this brilliant (and true) book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) - which is a really good read and perfect for HN.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:40AM (#27685637)
Thanks, DFlock. As you realize, writing up what happens is a necessary part of fixing a problem. That’s why I wrote Cuckoo’s Egg. I’m gratified that my own community has responded; perhaps someone at Amazon will pick up on this.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:50AM (#27685685)
A minute ago, I added a few more details to my website-writeup.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by renw0rp on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:37AM (#27685982)
I've read your book a couple of years ago. When I saw your name on hacker news I thought it sounded familiar!
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by mprovost on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:59AM (#27685395)
His TED talk is amazing, his energy for learning is so infectious. I just meant to post the link here but had to watch the whole thing again!

https://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_the_call_to_learn?l...

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by indigodaddy on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:59AM (#27685736)
There’s a Cliff Stoll Ted Talk!?? I’ve read the book and watched the complimentary PBS side piece, but wasn’t aware of a ted talk, thanks!
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @05:23AM (#27686562)
Sigh - sends me back 15 years or so.

I'd prepared a 1 hour talk. When I was about to go on stage, they told me that I had only 15 minutes. So, well, I remembered one of the few things I learned in grad school: talk fast and don't give 'em a standing target.

Covered my points and finished in, yep, 18 minutes.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by arp242 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @05:31AM (#27686609)
Well, I bought a Klein bottle and knitted Klein hat after seeing that talk many years ago, so it wasn't entirely useless :-)

I still have the hat. I no longer have the bottle as I moved to the other side of the world a number of years ago, and after inquiring with some mathematician friends it turned out that four-dimensional glass bottles are not compatible with three-dimensional backpacks :-/

When I got the package it was covered in hand-written notes; gosh, I don't remember what it said exactly, but it was hilarious; somehow you even managed to put some joke in Dutch on it. I wanted to email something back but I was shy and didn't know what to say. So, about a decade too late, thanks! Not only was I very happy with the bottle, the packaging absolutely made my day all those years ago.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by elwell on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:17PM (#27691066)
I saw that talk a long time ago, but I can still hear you saying "I would dearly love to talk about one-sided objects!" I appreciate your infectious energy.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by aerospace_guy on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @04:23PM (#27693028)
I just watched this for the first time. Your energy is infectious and inspiring.

Thank you for what you do.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by RobertoG on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:20AM (#27685865)
>>"Nice write-up of how this scam works, I wasn't aware of the details previously."

I still don't understand how it works. Why can somebody owning something called "Amvoom" claim something called "Acme Klein Bottle"?

An even if they legally own the brand, how keeping the reviews when moving the brand to the new owner is the proper thing to do for the customers? By definition, the reviews are for another provider. I don't get it.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by s_fischer on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:12AM (#27687519)
My best guess is that amazon is using the entities associated with the registered trademark as some form of proof of identity. So since there was no registered trademark for Acme Klein Bottle, there was nothing to compare the new identity to when Amvoom submitted their request.

I really hope I'm wrong though because this sounds like a very lazy and flawed system.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by alisonkisk on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:50AM (#27687829)
> a very lazy and flawed system.

That's how you make $100B, not by "doing things that don't scale" like handwriting thankyou notes to every customer.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:59PM (#27692248)
Allson, your comment hits home. I like to scribble thank you notes to customers. I was brought up that way. Anyhow, sooner or later, I'll meet the person who bought that Klein bottle - so I'd like to have a good feeling ahead of time.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by adrian_mrd on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:09AM (#27685099)
Has anyone read his other book ‘Silicon Snake Oil’ [1] from 1995 lately?

Sounds like most of his predictions in it (eg e-commerce will fail, digital books will not be viable, etc) were wildly off the mark - but were any prescient?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Snake_Oil

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by teraflop on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:33AM (#27685590)
Just from skimming through the book, it seems like its central thesis is an enumeration of all the ways in which computers and the Internet are terrible, accompanied by predictions that none of those flaws are ever likely to change. So it's not really a matter of any of his predictions being "prescient", it's just that some things have improved drastically, and others less so.

For example, he complains that nobody will want to look up information from computerized databases because CD-ROMs are too slow; consumers won't shop online because they can't pay securely; retailers won't rely on e-commerce because too few customers have Internet access; nobody will want e-books because you can't read them on the subway; there's no way to effectively search for content online; digital art will never surpass clip art and crude photoshops; it's impossible for networks to be secure because data and credentials are unencrypted; and so on.

On the bright side, he thinks that at least nobody will need to worry about online privacy, because it will be too cumbersome for anyone to effectively maintain databases of personal information.

But on the other hand, with some of his observations, it's at least arguable that they still hold true 25 years later:

> Anyone can post messages to the net. Practically everyone does. The resulting cacophony drowns out serious discussion. Online debates of tough issues are often polarized by messages taking extreme positions.

> An original IBM PC, now over ten years old, is fully obsolete. Likely, it will still work perfectly and do everything it was build for; after all, the silicon and copper haven't deteriorated. But you can't get software for it any longer.

> A word processor may last two years before the next version. These upgrades likely add as many new bugs as are patched, and result in a bigger, more complex program. One that's less and less compatible with old files. [...] Curiously, as computer hardware gets faster, programs run slower.

> Photo retouching isn't new. Digital image processing, however, can be so extensive yet undetectable that it undermines the foundation of photojournalism -- that seeing is believing.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by wombatpm on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:11AM (#27685476)
I read in 1995 when it came out. My take away - searching is not the same as browsing, and something is lost when serendipity is removed from the process. And the internet works for a certain mindset to the detriment of other points of view
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by alisonkisk on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:52AM (#27687852)
He completely missed the boat about how Moore's Law would improve upon the power of early prototypes. It's a classic case of underestimating the power of exponential growth by visualizing it as low-order polynomial, and missing that "digital is worse than analog" is a problem that can be solved by increasing the scale of digital power.

But he was right about tech will enable and amplify the worst in social behaviors.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by gfaure on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:35AM (#27685609)
He's also a connoisseur and collector of slide rules and the Curta mechanical calculator!

Here's a video of him describing how the Curta performs arithmetic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OynMJB-2J1o — as well as the SciAm article he wrote on them: http://www.mycurta.com/Calculator.pdf

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:24AM (#27685885)
Connoisseur? Naw! Stop by my place and you'll see a messy collection of oddball things ranging from some old calculators to stacks of old books. I received a Curta Calculator from my astronomy mentor, Ernst Both, when he got an HP-35 around 1973. I was one of his students; today, I can't look at it without thinking happy thoughts using a spectrohelioscope to understand sunspot magnetic fields. But that's another story...
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by gfaure on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @04:37AM (#27686335)
Wow, I'm honoured to hear from someone who loves these old calculating devices as much as I do! I have a Curta II and a number of the HP Voyager calculators from the 80s (11C, 15C, 16C), but the one that takes the pride of place in my collection has to be the Curta. Looking forward to adding a Klein bottle or beanie to my collection some day, too.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by davidw on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:30AM (#27685237)
He has occasionally stopped by this site: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=CliffStoll
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:58AM (#27685728)
And, still do occasionally stop by! (woke up from sleeping, and a heavy load on my raspberry-pi web server told me something was happening...)
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by billpg on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @07:18AM (#27687199)
Wait, your web server is a Raspberry PI, and its holding up while being on the HN front page.

Do you have a caching service in front maybe?

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:51AM (#27689246)
Hi Bill,

Yep. Cloudflare is out front, so the actual load on the rasp-pi is mitigated by their content-delivery network.

Then, too, my website is almost entirely simple html with compressed images, so there's not a lot of bytes to shovel.

Here in Berkeley/Oakland, Sonic.net has strung quality fiber-optic, so there's 1Gbit to my house. That lets me keep up with things. However, they only give a dynamic ip address;, so my pi must keep track of its address and tell Cloudflare whenever it changes.

Works surprisingly well - from /top/ I see about several dozen simultaneous users (thank you!), and the cpu temp is about 2 degrees above its normal of 50C

The raspberry pi itself is in the crawlspace under my home, fed through a Ubiquity edge router. Much fun, playing with Unix (oops, I mean Linux) -- sends me back to days of yore when everything happened from your command lines.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by jgrahamc on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:59AM (#27689355)
Cliff...

1. I met you in Kepler's when Silicon Snake Oil came out and we talked about something and you wrote in the inside "I hear you, John". I don't know what we discussed!

2. I am now Cloudflare's CTO and if you want to avoid the dynamic IP address problem you can use Cloudflare Tunnel to connect to us (rather than us to you). https://www.cloudflare.com/products/tunnel/

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:20PM (#27690386)
Yikes! Good stuff! (Just last week I was about to bump up my Cloudflare account. This seals it!)

And that Kepler's talk? Happy memories, indeed. They "paid" me for my talk by saying that I could have a copy of any book in the store. I chose the Times World Atlas (a way-big book of maps). The manager's face suddenly dropped -- and then I told 'em that I'd pay full list price if all of their employees sound sign the book. Result: I now have a terrific atlas of maps, with a dozen signatures of book people. (two of them visited me last year and I showed them their signatures from decades ago -- very sweet!)

Meanwhile, I gotta send out some of the tsunami of Klein bottle orders. But Cloudflare tunnel? Here I come!

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by jgrahamc on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:52PM (#27692171)
Let me know (jgc AT cloudflare DOT com) if you need help with Tunnel.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by fl0wenol on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:19PM (#27695944)
This is a really wholesome thread... You guys are great.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by billpg on Friday July 09, 2021 @01:50PM (#27786423)
Hello there. I just spoke to your colleague in sales and she tells me that Cloudflare Tunnel is only available to Enterprise customers. I forget the exact price but it included the word "thousand". (I almost fainted.)

My needs are very similar to Cliff's. I have (or going to have) a home server on a residential ISP which can't accept incomming connections. I need a public-facing server that will return from the cache if I'm ever on the HN front page or my home server is down, TLS handling, and routing to my home server's port 80 when needed.

I mostly serve personal websites but I have aspirations of building a small business. Is there anything in Cloudflare's range that would work for my kind of needs?

Hoping you follow-up on nine-day-old threads, Bill.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by jgrahamc on Friday July 09, 2021 @02:00PM (#27786555)
1. Please email me (jgc) and tell me who told you this

2. We literally announced free tunnels for all customer here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/tunnel-for-everyone/

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by billpg on Friday July 09, 2021 @02:44PM (#27787032)
I just emailed you. Thank you for following up on such an old comment thread.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by eatonphil on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @07:41AM (#27687325)
From personal experience, any cheap vps that can serve static pages will stand the front of HN.

The blogs that go down here typically back every request by MySQL (ahem, WordPress) which is totally unnecessary and often actively harmful since MySQL has very low default total connections allowed.

The point being: don't serve requests backed by a database unless the results are likely to change very dynamically!

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by toast0 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:23PM (#27691129)
> The blogs that go down here typically back every request by MySQL (ahem, WordPress) which is totally unnecessary and often actively harmful since MySQL has very low default total connections allowed.

WordPress is not my favorite thing and some of the available plug-ins do terrible things with MySQL, but the problem is not too low default connections; it's too many PHP workers. WordPress is generally focused enough that most of the wall time is spent in waiting for the database, so you want to optimize for throughput; one or two workers per cpu thread is plenty for that. More concurrency than execution available reduces throughput, so it's better to queue requests in your http layer than to process multiple at once.

Large numbers of MySQL connections are more appropriate when the web pages do a mix of things, but more/mostly idle DB wise; in that case, you might still want persistent connections to reduce round trips before a query, but are less likely to have a query backlog large enough where task switching overhead becomes significant.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by eatonphil on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:27PM (#27691184)
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by billpg on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @07:53AM (#27687398)
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to be looking at HTML cache add-ons for my WordPress site.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by eatonphil on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:10AM (#27687509)
Yes you can do that or there are static site generators backed by MySQL too. So your data and configuration site can still be dynamic but your served site will be completely static.

The only difference between this and adding a cache is that the cache is another piece of software in your production stack.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by Axien on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:07AM (#27688012)
Can you recommend a good static site generator?
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by eatonphil on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:10AM (#27688040)
For WordPress? No. I don't use it. I just know SSGs for it exists and not enough people/companies use it (when they're using WP in the first place). :)

Vanilla SSGs are so simple I ended up writing a basic one out of a markdown and jinja parser in Python every time (for example: https://github.com/eatonphil/notes.eatonphil.com/blob/master...).

If I were not lazy I might learn one of the major ones like Hugo.

It doesn't matter what SSG you pick, they all produce the exact same kind of thing.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by beermonster on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:20PM (#27691841)
When my friends webserver died and they had no backups, I found the wayback machine was s good (historic) static site generator ;-) Just mirror it from there and voila.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by cyberge99 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:20PM (#27692460)
Hexo is a good and fast lightweight generator.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by beermonster on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:19PM (#27691828)
No need to even get a cheap VPS. You can just serve up static content in an S3 bucket or similar.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by eatonphil on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @02:23PM (#27691877)
For sure. I've used Github Pages (free site hosting) for a few years now. I'm leaning back toward VPS though so that I can do access log analysis rather than depend on Google Analytics.

But the point was to make a comparison to a Raspberry Pi and emphasize that you do not special compute to withstand thousands of page views. Even S3 and GH Pages are overkill in terms of the compute behind both of them vs. what you need minimally.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by indigodaddy on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:00AM (#27685748)
Hah! That’s funny and cool. I mean hot.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by nxpnsv on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:37AM (#27685271)
Also, he did a numberphile podcast which was truly fantastic. I laughed and cried. Do listen to it.
Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by erk__ on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:46AM (#27685331)
Here is a link to the youtube version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxdcBD4ppF0

And I will double up and say it is a great episode of a great podcast.

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by mijoharas on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @06:22AM (#27686861)
Ahhh... unfortunately there's no kindle version. (I'm too inundated with paper books that I tend to stick with digital for new purchases).

Out of interest, is it publishing companies that make digital versions of books, or is it up to the author themselves to do that?

(And if it's the latter this is a small request to Clifford to consider it if it's not too much of an arduous task. And provided their relationship with amazon isn't too soured by the current situation, which I could understand if it is).

Re:A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing by 29athrowaway on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:13AM (#27685130)
There's this documentary about him too: "The KGB, the Computer, and Me" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGv5BqNL164