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Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by igammarays on Monday June 28, 2021 @05:35AM (#27659715)
Good. A precursor to banning crypto itself, I hope. The government SHOULD have a monopoly on certain things, like lethal force (armies), and issuance of currency, because total chaos and anarchy would happen otherwise.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by folli on Monday June 28, 2021 @05:43AM (#27659752)
I agree about the lethal force aspect, but can you elaborate on how issuing currency results in chaos and anarchy?
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Zenst on Monday June 28, 2021 @07:02AM (#27660269)
Anything that can impact a countries control upon their own currency has the potential to destabilise things.

Now whilst cypto is another currency, it is one that is very volatile and as we have seen, anything that volatile in a currency is always never good for the majority.

Also to have any impact, such crypto's would need to become more widespread and whilst in geek land we may view things as common usage, your average citizen probably at best only just aware of their existence. Indeed I'd hazard a guess that most people in any country have never held currency beyond their local offering (though the dollar sure does come close and that in some countries).

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by ezekg on Monday June 28, 2021 @12:52PM (#27664286)
If a government has a monopoly on violence, then its citizens have no recourse to correct an evil or corrupt government. History shows time and time again that this is the case. In the case of the USA -- I don't think anybody here should want our government to have a monopoly on violence, given the USA's violent history. Trading such liberty for a sense of false security is unwise, in my opinion. The USA's founding fathers knew this.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by colesantiago on Monday June 28, 2021 @08:22AM (#27660921)
> A precursor to banning crypto itself...

Is it? How would you go about banning crypto completely such that nobody uses it?

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by analognoise on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:01AM (#27662858)
Well all the transactions are public. So I assume you freeze the assets of everyone involved in the exchanges. Then if they operate in a country beyond your reach, you embargo that country or apply other geopolitical pressure - you don't finance local development, or military assistance, or vote against whatever they want in NATO, whatever. Most countries have agreements in place for financial regulation and will gladly hand someone over who breaks a US banking law.

Then whenever you trace it to one of your citizens, you throw them in jail. This would destroy the exchanges, and prevent most people from participating in it (even as a curio).

It would be ultra easy to destroy crypto. If the US, Europe or China bans it for real, it will be worthless overnight. Nobody cares more about crypto than pissing off any of them.

I think all major countries are gearing up for this and it will happen eventually.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by madamelic on Monday June 28, 2021 @12:10PM (#27663709)
So... your dream is a one world government police state dystopia? Interesting.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by analognoise on Monday June 28, 2021 @12:18PM (#27663817)
Not at all, it's just naive to think the USA, Europe, or China couldn't shut down crypto if they wanted.

They have million man armies, jets, tanks, millions of bureaucrats, leading edge development programs, hypersonic missiles, nuclear weapons, atomic energy, etc - but they "couldn't stop crypto!", a ledger where all transactions are...explicitly public?

Like come on. They have entire departments devoted tracing transactions for tax avoidance, but they're helpless against...a public list of transactions? No way.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by madamelic on Monday June 28, 2021 @12:25PM (#27663923)
Ah ok, I misunderstood. You were saying as an example, not as an actual thing you desire them to do.

I think the big issue is just the scale of the market. They _could_ do it with enough funding and manpower, but I think it would cause a Streisand effect in that privacy-centric tokens would become more popular.

It's better for governments to contain it and not appear to be against it so that development focus doesn't shift to Monero-like tokens.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by analognoise on Monday June 28, 2021 @01:01PM (#27664420)
They would become more popular - until they went after the exchange.

You can design a ideal token - the Platonic model of a crypto. Totally secure, totally anonymous. Assume it perfectly hides all information about all users.

And they could easily still destroy it - they'd just attack whoever offered cash for that token, who they would uncover by tracing regular cash (Dollars/Euros/Rinmenbi). There is no technical solution that can avoid actually avoid tracing when you turn the crypto into goods and services - unless both parties are willing to deal in that token exclusively AND not to keep records of any of their dealings. Which makes it only useful for illicit activities anyway - you're not going to get your kitchen remodel done and everyone is going to agree to get paid in your token and not report it to the government while also somehow hiding the fact that you're having people show up to your house to do work. It's just not practical. SOMEONE on the kitchen remodel team is going to go "Nah, I want...dollars?".

There's an XKCD about this:

https://xkcd.com/538/

^ They'd just drug the people involved and hit them with a wrench until they gave them the answers. Developing any of these "cryptos" is a total waste of time, and has been since day one - eventually people will figure this out and the price will plummet.

...in my opinion, obviously.

I think what's going to really happen is that the US is going to release a digital currency, and it will gain real adoption, and which one is Grandma going to use? Real US-backed E-bucks or... some trinket coin she doesn't understand that only allows her to buy heroin and contract killers? I mean maybe Grandma likes to party and has made a lifetime of enemies and it's a perfect fit, but I...doubt it?

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by RhodoGSA on Monday June 28, 2021 @01:34PM (#27664840)
Crypto - > Salvidorian Dollar (Insert any country that wants to stick it to the US here) - > US dollar.

Monero keeps no record of headers of each transaction, so granted it might be a bit interesting on a tax form how you got 100m in $Y currency but the crypto to $Y fiat off-ramp would be hidden. Also, there's BTC ATM's, people willing to meet in person for a crypto/cash exchange and plenty of people using crypto to provide liquidity for other base pair swaps.

Also, i don't believe crypto is ever going to be used for the masses. But it has very interesting properties in finance like POS, sythetics, etc. These are REAL uses (read economic gains) So, i may not ever use it for paying for my kitchen remodel but i will HODL it and see my fortunes rise.

Lastly, Multi-level marketing is a 'Meme' in the purest definition. It's why it has popped up in so many manifestations. Whether it's a good Meme or not is a different question but is the reason i believe crypto is here to stay. it's a brain virus with the implicit understanding that if you own crypto, it behoves you economically to get more people into it. If you don't own it and hate it, you are only passively 'Hating it', in a more dismissive posture than anything. This one sided take is the reason crypto will continue to eat traditional finances lunch.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by MrMan on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:51PM (#27671154)
We definitely need a world government to survive
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @07:30AM (#27660463)
The idea of Bitcoin is that no one has the power to issue currency. Issuance is limited to 21 million units and all of them are created with energy. No one should have the power to issue currency.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Monday June 28, 2021 @07:56AM (#27660692)
Bitcoin has an annualized volatility of around 100%

In what sense can it be a useful currency?

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @09:27AM (#27661668)
Volatility is not an inherent property of a currency or an asset, but the result of market actions. Volatility will decrease in the long term, when more uncorrelated markets are traded in bitcoin.

Eventually, when everything is traded and priced in bitcoin, bitcoin becomes an objective unit of value. At that point bitcoin is the only thing that is not volatile, and volatility of everything else is measured against it.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Monday June 28, 2021 @09:37AM (#27661796)
> Volatility is not an inherent property of a currency or an asset

Volatility is an an inherent property of an asset/currency/whatever(stddev of (log)returns), as long as you have a fixed and distinct numeraire.

Sure, you can argue that bitcoin may _be_ the numeraire one day, but what's the path towards that when it's so useless as a currency presently?

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:02AM (#27662099)
It's not useless even if it is volatile. On longer time scales, it is not volatile but consistently appreciating in value, which makes it a great savings vehicle. It's inherently a better currency, and that's why more and more people choose to use it. Increased use decreases volatility, which in turn makes it more attractive as a currency, and so on.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by arrrgr on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:57AM (#27662806)
Yeah, let's just forget about the fact that every BTC up move was preceded by a fat Tether print since mid 2016. It's not Tether pumping, it's the people choosing bitcoin! derp
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:18AM (#27663031)
The amount of Tether just tracks the amount of money deposits, which are tokenized into USDT. Tether is just a small fraction of all the money entering exchanges.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by RhodoGSA on Monday June 28, 2021 @01:42PM (#27664937)
Big crypto guy here; Tether is the bain of crypto. It is a centralized medium, that is accepted on centralized exchanges as fact with no audit on how much asset to coin ratio exists. Tether can print as many USDT as they want, buy up all the BTC on 100x leveraged long and no one would be the wiser. BTC's $700B market cap could be fairy dust and no one can know.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by arrrgr on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:26PM (#27671402)
You say "can" but they "have"
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by arrrgr on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:27PM (#27671412)
No it does not. Tether dollars are not backed by real dollars or fairytale "customer deposits". They print Tethers and use them to pump bitcoin price to draw the attention of people like you (and me)
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:30AM (#27663171)
> It's not useless even if it is volatile. On longer time scales, it is not volatile but consistently appreciating in value, which makes it a great savings vehicle.

Either it's good as a currency, or it's good as a savings vehicle.

You seem to be confused about which line you're pushing

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:51AM (#27663458)
A currency that isn't a good savings vehicle is a bad currency. In a free market, people will choose to use a currency that doesn't lose its value.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Monday June 28, 2021 @06:46PM (#27669278)
This just isn’t true, else everyone would put their pension in USD.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:08PM (#27677908)
I'm not sure what's your point. USD is inflationary, that's why it's a bad currency / bad savings vehicle.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:58AM (#27690101)
I'm not sure what your point is. You keep goalpost shifting. Bitcoin clearly is unfit as a currency as it stands. If you're will to argue that an asset with a 3% daily vlt is viable as a currencty, I don't think we will be able to find common ground.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @05:24PM (#27693568)
There's no such thing as viable currency. For me it works fine. I'd rather choose higher volatility with long term value appreciation, rather than lower volatility with long term value depreciation.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by hhmc on Thursday July 01, 2021 @12:29PM (#27700915)
> There's no such thing as viable currency.

Of course there is, for example it would be necessary for it to be useful as a medium of exchange. Which, bitcoin certainly isn't.

I can't purchase, for example, >50% of the basket of goods that comprise the CPI with bitcoin.

Sure, you can argue that anything which can facilitate more than 0 exchanges with more than 0 counterparties is, at least ephemerally, a currency. But if you're arguing that, you've already lost.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by thehappypm on Monday June 28, 2021 @09:33AM (#27661736)
So your argument is that right now, the value of 1 Bitcoin is volatile, when compared to things like dollars or apples. In the future, the perspective will flip, and 1 Bitcoin will be considered stable, and the value of apples will be what is considered volatile?
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:41AM (#27662610)
Yes. At that point, the volatility of bitcoin will be the average volatility of everything.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by thehappypm on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:17AM (#27663026)
This is one of the more bizarre/interesting predictions I've seen so far.
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by haskellandchill on Monday June 28, 2021 @01:25PM (#27664710)
Do you not see the glaring inconsistency in your statements? "No one has power to issue currency! Bitcoin is issued currency!"
Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by Geee on Monday June 28, 2021 @06:53PM (#27669346)
21 million units of bitcoin have already been issued by the Bitcoin network itself. All the issued bitcoin are released as block rewards equally to anyone who wants to mine them according to the network rules, and all the miners must use energy to pay for them. No one gets them for free or has power to issue more.

Bitcoin is similar to gold in this regard, with the difference that the total amount of gold is practically unlimited and gold is mined with an unpredictable schedule.

Re:UK regulator clamps down on Binance by majinuub on Monday June 28, 2021 @09:32AM (#27661722)
This guy glows