News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by naikrovek on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:54PM (#27613350)
it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine.

"uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:02PM (#27613422)
How the hell is "Oof, we're so sorry about this." remotely similar to "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

I get it, some forms of communication aren't your bag. But I think it's at least reasonable to focus on a company's intent even if the verbiage isn't what you'd prefer. FWIW I'm quite older than a millennial, but I didn't find anything infantilizing about Notion's response - I'd much prefer a genuine expression of regret, which is what this FAQ appeared to be, than some nonsense corporate-speak.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by throwawayboise on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:08PM (#27613463)
The word "oof" affects a casual, breezy tone that is inappropriate in a professional response to a customer concern.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by suvo on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:21AM (#27613957)
Yes that's casual. But how it that inappropriate? It's not a legal document.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by hluska on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:56AM (#27614673)
Or it’s a genuine expression of embarrassment and anyone who would be bothered by that is an asshole. It’s three letters. Who cares?
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by naikrovek on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:07PM (#27613449)
it's insulting because it is attempting to minimize the customer's stake in the problem by appearing to be concerned and empathetic.

if they were concerned or empathetic, the issue would not have lasted as long as it has.

in short, it's disingenuous and it's an attempt to minimize the customer's concerns.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by hluska on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:59AM (#27614687)
Do you have special crystal ball that lets you peer into another company’s dev processes? If not, who are you to claim people have no empathy? That’s not only a really dark view of humans but it ignores the possibility that they cannot fix it right now.

God people, have a touch of respect for our colleagues.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by allarm on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:24AM (#27618947)
Probably Notion should not have put them into this situation in the first place? Maybe they should have been more clear on the issue they’re having so nobody has to make a guess? Shortly explain the details of the issue they’re having and give some timelines? Like mature companies do? It would be good enough for me if I were their customer but oof, who am I to suggest.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by naikrovek on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:29PM (#27626161)
I have respect for my colleagues at other companies.

They lose it when they talk down to me. "oof, sorry about that, but this is not important enough for us to fix right now" is not how you keep my respect, when the functionality has been broken for months.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by suvo on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:19AM (#27613948)
In my experience, it's mostly the Millienial developer who writes error messages like these and the Gen X that takes offence (probably because this reminds them of their condescending Boomer parents ;))
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by bingidingi on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:00PM (#27613400)
gee wiz
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by naikrovek on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:08PM (#27613458)
I laughed. thank you.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by pm90 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:57PM (#27613376)
Interesting. To me, its a strong signal that the person on the other end is not an offshored, overworked drone but someone who is treated well by the company and cares enough to express empathy.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by gostsamo on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:31PM (#27613637)
Don't try to be funny in your docs. If you want to convey information, make it clean, precise, and to the point. Do not assume and do not distract.

Please.

P.S. Jokes are not totally forbidden, but they should be more subtle and not so intrusive as "You are asking me a question, but here I'll give you a performance instead of an answer".

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by hluska on Thursday June 24, 2021 @03:02AM (#27614704)
Yes, the word ‘oof’ denotes a performance. The etymology dates back to early vaudeville days when Barker Malarkey used it to start the Famous Malarkey Family’s drag show…

Except that’s not true. That whole paragraph is a load of malarkey.

It’s a word. You don’t know the person involved and you’re making more awful assumptions based upon three letters.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by gostsamo on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:50AM (#27615929)
Now, reverse it backward. Not only I don't know them, but neither they know me. Can you see the issue now?

There is such a thing as technical writing style and it is about the relevance of information pieces and the relations between them.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by naikrovek on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:02PM (#27613423)
it's not empathetic, it's an attempt to disarm and minimize, and it's insulting.
Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by pmontra on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:31PM (#27613636)
There is no person on the other end. There is a program, so definitely a drone, maybe wrote by offshored developers maybe not, definitely overworked or they'll have the time to fix the bug or implement the feature instead of replacing it with a message.

A person doing the export manually would be OK as a workaround and instead all they have is that message. That's not OK.

Re:Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I... by nmaleki on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:08PM (#27613460)
Consider the platform demographic before responding this way. It can be an advantage and a disadvantage.