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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by NikolaNovak on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:06PM (#27612664)
I hate to wade into a controversial topic where I'm under-educated and have limited info/opinions; but for what little it is worth to add to anecdata - the current cohort of 12-15 year old girls in my friend/family circle are virtually all in some level of gender dysphoria. Most of their parents are supportive and loving but... panicked, I guess - completely uncertain what to do, how best to help them, and without robust support themselves. I think there'll be people with strong opinions giving advice here as there are in real life - but those are in some ways people whose advice I'd personally be least likely to take - on average, more interested in propagating some ideological rightness (on any and all sides), rather than looking at each and every child, circumstance, and taking a good hard look what's best of the person. Because that is a damn difficult question, whereas loud opinions are all too easy.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by mc32 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:40PM (#27612897)
I think this raises a few questions.

Has anything changed in the last 10 or 20 years?

Why does this affect as many youths as it does today?

No doubt there was unhappiness with one's identity in the past, but I doubt it was at the level it is today. And, in addition, I doubt it's at the same elevated level in all countries. In other words, we can ask 30 or 40 year olds, did you as a kid feel unhappy with your identity as much as today's youth feel about their identities but couldn't wouldn't express it?

Is it kids leading the change, is it kids following societal trends, is it other, what is it?

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by Izkata on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:56PM (#27613816)
> Has anything changed in the last 10 or 20 years?

Labeling - There's one specific example I'm aware of: Girls interested more in "boy" things than "girl" things were once called a "tomboy", but were still accepted as a girl, just a girl with different interests. Nowadays that same kid would be described as transgender and encouraged to transition.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by btilly on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:54PM (#27613355)
Has anything changed in the last 10 or 20 years?

Yes. We as a society have become dramatically more accepting of gay and trans people.

Gay marriage is a reasonable proxy. Back in 2008, and even a relatively liberal state like California passed a proposition to ban gay marriage. Today popular opinion supports gay marriage. Not just popular opinion in California, or nationwide, but even popular opinion nationwide AMONG REPUBLICANS.

This is why the parents that I know today with children identifying as trans are figuring out how to best support and help their children. The parents of trans people that I knew a few years back wound up becoming homeless as teenagers because of the reactions of their parents. A typical such reaction having been, "You are murdering my son!"

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by mc32 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:05PM (#27613439)
No doubt. But we knew back then we had gays and lesbians among us. We had them as friends and acquaintances so we knew the population existed and that there were quite a few people in our circles who happened to be. But trans seems a bit different.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by slg on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:00PM (#27613010)
>In other words, we can ask 30 or 40 year olds, did you feel unhappy with your identity as much as today's youth feel about their identities but couldn't wouldn't express it?

This won't be accurate for a few reasons.

First, there are certainly people in denial about these feelings. A society that is more hostile to trans people will yield a society that has more trans people denying their true identity. That should be obvious. Sometimes that denial is only outward which could result on them lying on a poll. Sometimes that denial will even be to themselves which means they couldn't be truthful on a poll.

If you have spent time around young children you have probably learned that it is difficult to understand a feeling without being able to name that feeling. Similarly it is possible for people to be experiencing gender dysmorphia without realizing that it is specifically gender dysmorphia. I have heard trans people talk about having a general lack of comfort in their body or just the sense that they were somehow wrong that they couldn't explain until they later in life realized they are trans.

Also trans people tragically have a shorter average life span due to increased rates of violence and suicide. Simply measuring the percentage of 40 years isn't going to be comparable to a percentage of 15 year olds because many of those 15 year olds sadly won't live to see 40.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by mc32 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:06PM (#27613060)
According to parent comment a significant fraction of the cohort are experiencing some form of unhappiness with their identities. If that is true, and a handful of commenters are making similar claims, then we could have seen alarming numbers of suicides amongst teenage girls, but we have not, so we'd have plenty of survivors to interview and understand better.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by orand on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:10PM (#27613477)
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-stream/2021/6/22/why-a...

“The proportion of mental health–related emergency department visits among adolescents aged 12–17 years increased 31 percent in 2020 compared with the same period in 2019, the report said. Visits for suspected suicide attempts among girls aged 12-17 then jumped 50 percent from February to March 2021 compared to the same period in 2019. The increase among boys the same age over the same period was just 3.7 percent.“

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by mc32 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:11PM (#27613486)
More acceptance coincides with more suicides? Something doesn't add up there.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by btilly on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:05AM (#27613873)
That data can be explained by many things. For an obvious example, perhaps the mental health impacts of COVID-19 hit girls harder than boys.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by slg on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:21PM (#27613148)
It doesn't follow that the rate would need to be "alarming" previously. Imagine 1% of teenagers are trans and 5% of suicides of teenager are trans. It wouldn't matter what the suicide rate would be and it would still have an impact on the total trans rate among 40 year olds.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by hkai on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:07PM (#27613451)
Okay so we can't ask today's 30 or 40 year olds about their feelings growing up?

This makes your theory conveniently unfalsifiable.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by slg on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:32PM (#27613645)
I never said we couldn't ask. I said it wouldn't be accurate to use their answers to project onto current young people. And just because it might be unfalsifiable doesn't mean it would be any less true.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by AdamJacobMuller on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:59PM (#27613395)
Not endorsing it per-se or suggesting it should be accepted wholesale but good reading on this is _ Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters_

https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by throwawaysea on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:38PM (#27613694)
There have been many attempts to get this book banned at booksellers. The author, Abigail Shriner, wrote about her experience through all this censorship at her Substack: https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/has-censorship-become-o...
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by esyir on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:23PM (#27613582)
Something I've wondered about this is the social pressure around dysphoria. Dysphoria, ironically, has become trendy, particularly about social media. See the "cis is boring" view that's been in vogue for some time across multiple social media platforms. This article on increasing rates of desistance after lockdown [1] (Disclaimer: Evidence isn't well structured and is arguably anecdotal) makes me consider the positive impact of social pressure on transition. That detransition seems like a clear blind spot in the literature (deliberately? it's another r/l culture war hotspot) means that all we get is anecdote for now though. Do note that other studies seem to report relatively high rates of desistance amongst children transitioners as compared to adults.

[1] https://4w.pub/social-media-trends-indicate-rise-in-gender-d...