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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by btilly on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @05:42PM (#27610832)
But how can anyone _possibly_ deny the first part? How could anyone contradict an individual who states their own gender - on what grounds can you claim to know how someone feels about themselves better than they themself do?

How do you define denying the first part?

According to my child's world view, I need to ask them every day what their pronouns are today. And any accidental slip-ups on any adult's part are a demonstration of transphobia, which justifies a raised voice and lecture.

While I'm perfectly OK with making an attempt to treat people as they wish to be treated, at what point does the inconvenience and stress that your constant demands make on others become an unreasonable ask of them? (Which is a question that every parent of teenagers winds up asking at some point, for some reason...)

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by jolux on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:15PM (#27611220)
> According to my child's world view, I need to ask them every day what their pronouns are today. And any accidental slip-ups on any adult's part are a demonstration of transphobia, which justifies a raised voice and lecture.

I agree that their request is unreasonable, and I'm sorry for the stress it's causing you. I can't really justify their behavior on a rational basis (teens, right?). And obviously I don't know your child, and I don't know you, but as a trans person who went through a similar phase, maybe consider what they might be thinking if you want to understand why they might be behaving like this?

For one thing, they almost certainly know your opinions about the persistence of trans identity and online echo chambers of gender identity. If (real if) you're hostile to the idea that they could really be trans, it's possible they feel hostile to the idea that you could really be making a good faith best effort to support them, which is what this sounds like to me: defensiveness. I had a very similar dynamic with my parents for several years. We came out of it understanding each other a lot better, but it was certainly rough in the thick of it. I really hope you can find a way to resolve the tension.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by btilly on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:09PM (#27612687)
If (real if) you're hostile to the idea that they could really be trans, it's possible they feel hostile to the idea that you could really be making a good faith best effort to support them, which is what this sounds like to me: defensiveness.

True, you don't know me.

When my child came out as pan, a few days later we had arranged for a trip to an old friend of mine who is a trans-woman, a lesbian, and who had a non-binary friend who was staying with her.

I regret the fact that you had a difficult relationship with your parents. I've seen that story play out. However I'm pretty confident that I'm not actually transphobic. My concern is not that I don't want a child who is trans, my concern is about what is best for my child's long-term well-being.

[dead]
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by sirmike_ on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:26AM (#27615154)
Parents make mistakes all the time. It’s a milestone of parenting. A child is a child and knows nothing. Not even themselves up to a certain age. But that’s how we are all born. Not knowing anything, until we do. Then we all make a shit ton of mistakes and learn some more. Whether a child is this or that has to be ALWAYS balanced against the back drop of their best interests.

It’s one thing to be supportive and empathetic. It’s another thing to bow down to worship your child and let them run the show.

The trans issue has risen to a point where society must face it and figure out the bigger questions of how can we accommodate them and yet balance and find natural limits. We are so fucking far away from that point. And we will get there eventually.

I agree with the parent comment saying the trans issue is way over sampled and is or has become some kinda trend. It just is. Clearly their child showcases the main point of children know nothing when the child mis-understands what true transphobia is versus a childlike ignorance of parroting a concept they just heard about. Why is that? Well it never changes from generation to generation. If you have kids at some point they learn about attention and how to use it.

It’s kinda like personal preferences. Is it transphobic to say you are only attracted to the opposite sex and would never date or consider a trans person in a romantic relationship? Nope. But it’s a sure fired way to keep eyeballs on the screen and people in their rigid political groups.

Like this parent (although I will be more brutal) I could give two shits if they felt they were a trex or were a girl or a boy. I don’t care. What matters is that I raise a kind hearted, compassionate human being who understands the world is not your friend. And can find their grit and true will when they need it. There’s book loads more to this but boiled down I’m doing my best to not raise an inconsiderate asshole. Because they must be held to account and told when they are in fact acting like an inconsiderate asshole.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by raxxorrax on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:25AM (#27616489)
If gender dysphoria is as quickly diagnosed as "transphobia", there is probably little to it.

Sorry to say it that harshly, but this is basically shutting down any discussion.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by AIX2ESXI on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @07:11PM (#27611746)
It's brainwashing of the highest order, what is happening to our young people. Professor Sam Valkin on Youtube elaborates on all this nonsense. Powerful forces seek to manipulate impressionable minds and make them question their own gender. The more educated and socially connected you are, the more you are at risk of the inversion tactics.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @07:33PM (#27611938)
> Powerful forces seek to manipulate impressionable minds and make them question their own gender.

To what end?

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by reducesuffering on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @08:13PM (#27612285)
Not to actually accuse about this topic, but from a motive perspective, there are three powerful countries with first-rate technologists on the internet, all with proven hacking attacks, and all benefit from the weakening of the western world. They are also all generally allies against the rest of the world.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by wyattpeak on Thursday June 24, 2021 @03:43AM (#27614932)
Even as conspiracy theories go, "the Chinese are trying to turn our kids trans" is a wild one.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 5560675260 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:13AM (#27618799)
It sure sounds wild when strawmanned like this. Now "the Chinese will use any opportunity to reduce cohesion in western society, in particular by poring gas into culture war fire" is uncharitable, probably wrong, but plausible.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by reducesuffering on Thursday June 24, 2021 @03:45AM (#27614951)
Again, that's not what I'm insinuating. Only that the first part, "Powerful forces seek to manipulate impressionable minds," does have motive and precedence. Just trying to answer "to what end?"
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by AIX2ESXI on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:55AM (#27614104)
Well said. You know your stuff.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by AIX2ESXI on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:51AM (#27614089)
Demographic and Finance control is one example. If one chooses a life of Hedonism over a traditional path, they may be frivolous; e.g. a single person household that is not as efficient and pays for everything themselves. Just one example.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by klyrs on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @07:18PM (#27611799)
What are these "powerful forces"?
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by AIX2ESXI on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:54AM (#27614096)
Nation States, Corporations, Moguls that that have no moral compass and use control matrices to sway minds. E.G. did you know that Snapchat is biggest peddler of child porn? Or how about Only fans being a legal pimp for narcissists and their enablers?
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by klyrs on Thursday June 24, 2021 @01:34AM (#27614287)
Can you explain what a control matrix is and how one might use it to sway minds? Would it bore you if increasingly many transgender people are expressing their identities because that feels safer than that used to?
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by ithkuil on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:06PM (#27611103)
Teenager brains have a outstanding circuitry designed at discovering what infuriates their parents (and the generation of their parents) and just hammer on it, whatever that thing is.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by parineum on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:54PM (#27611587)
I was going to say, having been a teenager, this sounds an awful lot like the kind of thing I'd pull. Not exactly to make my parents upset but them being upset was an indication of success. I honestly don't know what my real end goals were but I'm sure it's at least partially understood by professionals.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by indemnity on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:02AM (#27616339)
In my experience this skill is present much earlier, but honed to precision in the teens when they are smarter than they ought to be.
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by munk-a on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @07:35PM (#27611967)
I can completely understand how frustrating the situation can be - I am extremely supportive of trans rights but I also feel like that decision starts at adulthood. Puberty blockers seem like a really good way to compromise on that point since doors are being kept open but no decision is being fully committed to.

Being a teenager is really confusing to begin with, and the last thing children need is more ways to categorize and divide people into clumps.

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by samat on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#27611061)
Really sorry about the stress of raising a teenager!
Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by lordCarbonFiber on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @08:59PM (#27612609)
How difficult is it to ask a simple question every morning? Or baring that, engage your kid. Could come to a compromise for defaulting to a gender neutral "they" for when you don't know how they're feeling in a given day. Upon which they could give you a reasonable clarification (or you know, just ask).

When your kid's demands are as simple as "hey support my identity, which requires nothing but thinking slightly more about the words you use" how could they not be frustrated when their parent can't even clear that low bar.