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Re:California will pay off all past due rent by lilyball on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:15PM (#27595128)
Nobody is being harmed by having unpaid rent paid off.

The people who haven't paid their rent have done so by and large because they couldn't afford it, not because they just chose not to. Paying off their rent helps those people, the people who couldn't afford to pay it themselves, and ensures they don't lose their housing as a result.

It certainly is true that landlords benefit from this package as they get their money, as opposed to an alternative like forcing all rent debts to be forgiven. But "landlords benefit" isn't a harm.

Perhaps a more equitable solution would have been to determine the median rent across the state and then give that amount of money to all renters. But that has a lot of difficulties, such as how do you handle folks who rented only for part of this time (including those who had to stop renting due to job loss). And what about folks who own their homes and are dealing with mortgages; paying off rent is likely to be more accepted by non-renters than a plan where non-renters get money and renters don't. Of course, the plan could be extended to people with mortgages too. Or heck, just give this money to every person over 18 (or 21?) in the state. This would presumably significantly expand the costs involved in the plan though, but it would certainly be the most equitable.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by rajin444 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:38PM (#27595422)
The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here? I would be furious. There’s certainly harm in policies that reduce trust in the system.

Something like a 0% interest loan from the government seems more fair here, but much harder to implement.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by luffapi on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:29PM (#27598063)
> The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here?

No, the middle class family benefits because there isn’t an army of homeless people in their city.

If landlords find their speculation doesn’t pay off, I’m not harmed. If millions of people are evicted, we are all harmed.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by fattire on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:20PM (#27613557)
Exactly.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by lotsofpulp on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:06PM (#27597217)
The other fair way is give everyone the same amount of bailouts, regardless if they need it or not.

This specific way (and all the other bailouts the US does) wrecks people who are responsible and save. But it should be clear to everyone by now that holding USD and playing it safe are the losing positions, as all risk will be socialized and profit will be privatized.

Not playing the game means losing.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by Spivak on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:37PM (#27598170)
You would be furious that someone who couldn't pay their rent is getting aid while someone who you, who could, isn't? I will never understand why people get so angry and others' lack of suffering. When you fall on hard times do you not wish that others not have to suffer like you did?

"I had known I was going to get a bailout I would have purposely not met my contractual obligations" isn't really the best argument.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by refurb on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:31PM (#27598739)
You’re rewarding people who don’t meet their obligations (but could) and punishing people who did meet their obligations (but were hurt doing so).

No so hard to understand.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by risk000 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:42PM (#27607487)
They're not being 'rewarded'. They're being saved.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by Spivak on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:14PM (#27599118)
But nobody is being punished here. You are not any worse off than you were yesterday before the aid was announced. If you had known in advance that this aid was coming would you have stopped paying your rent? Would you have kept paying and sacrificed just because you could due to some sense of civic duty? Did you return your stimulus check because you didn't actually need it and could have sacrificed more?

If you would have stopped paying then you're just mad that you didn't get out of your obligations and sacrificed when you didn't have to and feel like because of that you deserve it more, not that meeting one's obligations is something holy.

I understand the anger. But we're supposed to take a step back and not be jealous about good things happening to others.

Good for the people that didn't sacrifice and had a better quality life during COVID as a result. How could I ever wish anything else on them?

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ecnahc515 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:19PM (#27600060)
There are plenty of people who probably made enough to continue paying rent, but chose not to because of the eviction moratorium.

A tech worker could basically stop paying rent, stating they've been effected by COVID, even if they weren't, or if it was short-term, and then basically collect their tech salary check's while not paying rent.

They _could_ pay, chose not to, and reaped the benefits.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ipaddr on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @02:05AM (#27601292)
Tech workers could have gambled that plat but few did unless they needed to.

Plenty of rich people shoplift. It doesn't mean you should too.

A percentage of people park in handicap spaces when they legally shouldn't. Some people feel entitled and will take advantage of any situation.

You had to be that person above and still have the foresight to see this coming to pull off this scam.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ecnahc515 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:04AM (#27613864)
The risk here is a lot lower, it’s not really gambling. In this situation, you’re in the same position as everyone else in the country. It’s that fact that means you can more easily slip by without being caught. Not only that but it’s arguable that even people still working were financially impacted by the pandemic, and they could reduce or stop paying rent. A lot of people had pay cuts, or lived with roommates, it’s not hard to justify it. You might not think your stretching the truth or you may think if your the only roommate paying rent that it doesn’t matter at that point.

Back to your example of shoplifting: If it’s a riot and looting is happening, then even people who normally wouldn’t steal or commit often join in. It’s mob mentality. “If everyone is doing it, why can’t I?”

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by refurb on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:43PM (#27600204)
Of course you’re being punished. Not getting something that you could have gotten if you chose NOT to fulfill your financial obligations is a punishment.

By your logic if everyone but you get a $10,000 check you haven’t been punished? That’s ridiculous.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by Spivak on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:30PM (#27600474)
I honestly don't think that last example is ridiculous. I would be disappointed that I didn't get my $10k for whatever reason but I wouldn't think myself punished or be angry at someone who got their $10k. It's basically how I feel about student loan forgiveness. I paid back my loans but I still want that debt to be forgiven for everyone else. I have no expectation that because I paid my loans I deserve some cash reward because of it.

The reason to forgive any kind of debt is because the economic benefit of doing so it better than the alternative. Not because it's a reward for people who deserve it.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ericmay on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:58AM (#27603034)
Don’t forget that it’s not just a free lunch. Your tax dollars are paying for the $10,000 checks in this scenario. So not only would you be not benefiting, you’d also be paying and not benefiting.

Idk if that changes anything but I think it’s worth pointing out.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by risk000 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:45PM (#27607542)
Publicly created money does not come from taxes. It's generated de novo within a computer system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AyT9zftNrE

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by arbitrary_name on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:54PM (#27600610)
These people shrieking about how its punishment that some people get their rent paid sound like psychos, honestly. I'm on your side.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by refurb on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:49PM (#27600584)
Oh really? So even if the millionaire next door got the $10,000 check but you didn't, you wouldn't feel resentment? How about if Bill Gates got it but you didn't?
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by jude- on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:31AM (#27601092)
Nope. I would not feel one iota of resentment.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by refurb on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @02:16AM (#27601358)
You know how I know you're lying?
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by fattire on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:21PM (#27613572)
Because you're projecting?
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by risk000 on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:41PM (#27607465)
In this case we're pitting this theoretical family's feeling of being wronged, against the actual needs for shelter and economic solvency of another block of the population.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by gattis on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:43PM (#27596934)
well, the money to pay the rent off comes from somewhere... ultimately taxpayers, which includes these "responsible" people

every time the government alters the fair-market price for things, a transfer of wealth is created. sometimes for the better. but yeah, in every case, someone is getting boned.

at least this is only addressing the past and not creating upside-down incentives going forward. if the state said they were paying off any delinquent rent going forward, then only a fool would pay their rent. although, I'm sure a lot of people are making a mental note for themselves to stop paying rent the next time there is a state of emergency.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by jude- on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:49AM (#27601176)
> well, the money to pay the rent off comes from somewhere... ultimately taxpayers, which includes these "responsible" people

Well, then this program should be welcome news. Instead of wrecking the lives of millions of people and turning them all out on the street, they instead get to keep their lives and careers and continue to pay taxes. Even if you ignored the incalculable misery a mass-eviction scenario would create, it wouldn't surprise me if paying off everyone's unpaid rent is actually cheaper than mass evictions, when the total cost of handling the resulting mass homelessness is taken into consideration.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by tdeck on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @03:45AM (#27601885)
It's worth remembering though that the "fair market" for certain things wouldn't even exist without the government. Land ownership and tenancy aren't natural laws - they're established by a framework of government policies and the ability of the government's employees to use force to restrict property use.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by godshatter on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:38PM (#27595413)
> Nobody is being harmed by having unpaid rent paid off.

I wasn't really objecting to the initiative necessarily, just lamenting the fact that the people who decided to sacrifice more to keep their rent paid up during a tough time instead of just letting it slide hoping they can figure something out later are the ones that aren't really gaining anything here. I don't know what the best solution would be here.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by newfriend on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:12PM (#27597880)
If I give a million dollars to everyone except you, am I harming you? I didn't do anything to you, but you are now in a much worse position than everyone else.

That is how it harms people. Even worse, it harms only the most responsible people.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by luffapi on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @06:32PM (#27598101)
It helps the most responsible people (and everyone else) by not causing a massive wave of homelessness. When people are evicted, they don’t vaporize. They’re still your neighbors, they just live on the sidewalk in front of your house.

Whether you view it as an ethical win or a practical one, reducing homelessness helps all of us.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by rmk on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:00PM (#27600307)
Is this the only way to reduce homelessness? How come other states haven't taken this route? Are the governors of the other states morons? Newsom is being recalled, so he is flailing and throwing cash around to secure his position, plain and simple.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by luffapi on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:06AM (#27604714)
It’s clearly an effective way to deal with homelessness, which California has a major problem with. The worst in the US.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by fattire on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:25PM (#27613597)
Depends-- If I'm in the sell-things-for-a-million-dollars-at-a-huge-profit business, this is great news for me.

Or if I live in a people-that-didn't-just-get-a-million-dollars-go-instantly-homeless-with-their-entire-family community, this is another big win for me. What a boon to the economy, and man we all just dodged a massive bullet.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by jude- on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:53AM (#27601202)
How, exactly, is this harmful? Why can't you be happy for everyone else? I would be.

Like, if you're worried about the inflation shock that would create, then the same people who have the power to give a million dollars to everyone but me would certainly have the power to raise interest rates and take other measures to prevent the sudden mass availability of wealth from wrecking havoc on the economy. But that's a separate topic, and if I'm affected negatively by this, I'd be upset at the powers that be for failing to mitigate the negative consequences of their actions. I wouldn't be upset at all at the hundreds of millions of people who are suddenly wealthy.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ergocoder on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:29PM (#27607284)
Better example:

Your company gives bonus to everyone except you.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by acchow on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:49PM (#27595554)
> Nobody is being harmed by having unpaid rent paid off.

There are plenty of ways for the state to use this money to benefit everyone instead of only landlords.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by skilesare on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:31PM (#27596093)
Yeah…f this. I feel harmed. I put my family through a lot to be responsible.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by jude- on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:51AM (#27601185)
The upside for people who did manage to pay rent is that they don't have to deal with the resulting mass homelessness (and associated mass violence and sharp decline of public safety) that would result from landlords evicting everyone who couldn't pay rent.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ummonk on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:54PM (#27597706)
That’s not true. A lot of people chose not to pay rent because they didn’t have to thanks to the eviction freeze.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by hn8788 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:21PM (#27595220)
At a minimum they should at least force you to submit a financial report and show that you couldn't pay your rent. Back when the housing bubble burst, I knew people who stopped paying their mortgage because the only way to qualify for a short sale was if you weren't paying your mortgage. They could still afford to pay it, they just felt like moving and didn't want to lose money on the house.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by content_sesh on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:32PM (#27595350)
What proof is there that means-testing this to weed out "unworthy" renters will save more money than it costs?
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by duskwuff on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:16PM (#27597325)
If anything, adding an intrusive means test (like a "financial report") is likely to exclude a lot of deserving renters, especially ones who are unbanked/underbanked.
Re:California will pay off all past due rent by ergocoder on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:27PM (#27607261)
"Nobody is harmed by pay gap"

Yeah, somebody is harmed. First, it's unfair. Second, you are competing for the same resources (house and etc.). Now you are at disadvantage.

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by gruez on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:22PM (#27595233)
> Nobody is being harmed by having unpaid rent paid off.

opportunity cost?

Re:California will pay off all past due rent by fattire on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:27PM (#27613612)
You mean the cost of having thousands of renters go insta-homeless and thousands of landlords getting stiffed for a year's worth of rent?