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Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:34AM (#27571021)
As someone not getting the vaccine. I'll explain my reasoning. At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small. And much better treatments are around the corner. Thus a 1% mortality rate for the elderly, with multiple co-morbidities, will be even lower for someone my age should I get it at some point. Vaccines introduce a foreign substance 100% of the time into your body, sometimes have side effects. I won't even date girls that got the vaccine, until more is known about long term effects. I'm worried about possibility of birth defects should a pregnancy occur.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:42AM (#27571135)
> until more is known about long term effects

I'm curious about this line of reasoning. We've been testing mRNA treatments for other diseases for about 25 years now. The approach was abandoned for gene therapy because the effects weren't long lasting. We have follow up data on people who participated in those studies, and to my knowledge there aren't any documented negative long term effects. We know what the vaccine encodes, a spike protein, which is produced for a few weeks and the the mRNA wears out and is cleaned up by the cells. The proteins also don't persist in the body for very long. The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special.

History also demonstrated that negative vaccine reactions typically happen quickly, and not years down the line.

With all of that in mind, why would one be concerned with long term effects? Is there something I'm missing? Is the position one of maximalist caution? If so, are you applying that to other areas of your life?

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by krona on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:08PM (#27571405)
The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special.

Polyethylene glycol, for one, has never been used before in an approved vaccine. It is thought to be the cause of some rare anaphylactic reactions.

There are dozens of other compounds in the Pfizer vaccine; the reason for them being there and their effects are, for the most part, a trade secret.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:42PM (#27571701)
It seems like the amount of PEG in the vaccine is two orders of magnitude than the levels in existing drugs[1].

[1] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nano...

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:59AM (#27571320)
Not caution. Willingness to accept death should it come. I'm part of the natural world, and viruses are a natural way that keep population in balance. All these vaccines are keeping more kindling for a bigger fire down humanity's timeline. I would probably reconsider if the odds where much worse than 1%.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:40PM (#27571675)
This doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me.

> natural way that keep population in balance

This is essentially a faith based belief, and not something rooted in personal risk as you previously mentioned.

> All these vaccines are keeping more kindling for a bigger fire down humanity's timeline.

Viral infections don't just kill you or you'll be fine. There are expensive (to society) effects of lots of people having diminished physical and cognitive capacity after infection. More over, by not being vaccinated you are imposing extra risk on anyone you contact who is unlucky enough to be in the narrow slice of people who are vaccinated but still susceptible to infection.

I don't see how you can argue from a perspective of unknown vaccine risk and some sort of concept of needing a virus to kill "excess population." That just seems perverse to me.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:27PM (#27572117)
I don't need the virus to kill anyone. Its part of the natural world. Viruses are literarily part of our genetic code, and may have helped to evolve the placenta. We have evolved along side of them. They're not there to only harm us, they also benefit us. It doesn't matter what I think anyway.

There's a limit to how much armour you can wear. There's always a cost.

And lets say each vaccine harms you just a tiny bit, which they clearly do. How much is the accumulated damage from all the vaccines we currently take or will need to take into humanity's future vs a naturally evolved immunity.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @03:39PM (#27573230)
> And lets say each vaccine harms you just a tiny bit, which they clearly do

I don’t think this is supported by evidence at all.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:26PM (#27574065)
I have scarring from a TB vaccine on my arm the size of a dime. It's certainly not without effect to have an strong immune response to a foreign substance in your body. I'm not even going to mention the preservatives and other substances they put in them.

The strongest hunch that something is off with an animal population, is a low fertility rate. You have negative, declining reproductive rate hovering around 1.6

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:17PM (#27575020)
> I have scarring from a TB vaccine on my arm the size of a dime.

That isn't some systemic malady, it's a scar. I've got one from cutting myself shaving, but shaving isn't really a problem.

> You have negative, declining reproductive rate hovering around 1.6

This is clearly because people are choosing to have fewer children as they get richer. And is a bizarre point as you earlier argued that the virus killing people was good for "natural balance."

It's really hard to believe you're acting in good faith here and not just trolling.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:02PM (#27575272)
1. To be comparable, it would be more like you cut yourself shaving, and had a severe infection resulting in a permanent scar on your face the size of a dime.

Evidence is provided of adverse effects here for the US. https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

"During this time, VAERS received 5,343 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

For Canada:

There have been a total of 7,408 reports (26.3 reports per 100,000 doses administered) up to and including June 11, 2021.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/

2. That's just one plausible explanation you are given without questioning. It might be true to some extent, but its not the only reason for the decline.

Western Women are not able to have children in large numbers, some are struggling to even have one and are spending thousands of dollars on IVF fertility treatments now into their 40s trying.

"About 10 percent of women (6.1 million) in the United States ages 15-44 have difficulty getting pregnant or staying pregnant, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."

https://www.womenshealth.gov/a-z-topics/infertility#:~:text=....

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ch4s3 on Monday June 21, 2021 @10:57AM (#27579789)
This is clearly in bad faith. You've jumped for stating you own fears, to some malthusian nonsense, and now proposing that vaccines lower fertility. You're spewing conspiracy and not acting within the standards of the community. Please take this elsewhere.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Monday June 21, 2021 @06:40PM (#27585469)
You stated that there's no evidence that vaccine harm you even a tiny bit. I provided evidence from the governments own database.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by mekkkkkk on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:34PM (#27571627)
But the thing is that getting vaccinated isn't just a matter of individual safety. It's a way to minimize the spread throughout the whole of society. Even if the death rate would be only 1%, it's a whole lot of unnecessary death when dealing with a large population. Not to mention all the non-lethal yet life altering conditions that may follow full blown COVID.

Regarding your naturalistic argument, I doubt that you have the same outlook when it comes to other aspects of life. There is no shortage of natural causes of death that we try to avoid in our everyday lives. Unless you are proposing that we use COVID as an opportunity to literally and explicitly cull the human population, I don't think that reasoning holds water.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @01:50PM (#27572311)
Here's an article of odds of dying from various things.

https://robertroybritt.medium.com/odds-of-dying-what-you-sho...

Car Accidents are around 1/103. I've been to India car Pollution probably kills more.

Will you give up driving to make the roads safer for others? How about just give up google, because apparently they paid for some of the GOF research labs.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by justapassenger on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:13PM (#27571450)
If you truly believe that viruses are here to keep our population in balance and we should be part of natural world, why would higher chances of dying affect your decision? Following your logic it just means that nature have much stronger reasons to decimate humanity. Shouldn’t you accept it?
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by the-rc on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:23PM (#27571541)
There's even greater herd immunity for measles and co., yet there are outbreaks among unvaccinated people all the time. Perhaps those odds are not that small. COVID-19 is probably never going to go away.

And you worry about the long term side effects for the vaccine's one protein, but only focus on the treatment (and not the side effects) for the virus that has 29 of them and tries its best to multiply itself. Do you see how this line of reasoning doesn't seem to compute?

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by MAGZine on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:47AM (#27571192)
There ultimate treatment has arrived in the form of prevention. The urgency to develop covid specific therapeutics has dissipated for the same reason "your chance of getting it is lower."

Though even that is highly dependent on where you live, who you interact with, if you travel, etc. Lots of vaccine skeptics tend to share views and group, which makes conditions ripe for mini-outbreaks.

"Other people got the vaccine so I don't have to" is logic that looks sound on the surface but I think recent skepticism has shown that enough people all playing this card has the potential for disaster/devestation that is easily avoided.

Anyhow, you should talk your physician about this stuff, who is an authority who can give you information and help diffuse worried in a meaningful way.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:03PM (#27571350)
With more information coming out, and now a significant probability that the Virus was created in the lab. I am not culpable for saving humanity from the actions of rouge governments. Blame them, not me.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by b0sk on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:43AM (#27571152)
> At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small.

That's because the herd around you has been vaccinated. So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd. Awesome!

Maybe your post is parody. Can't really tell.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by brigandish on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:13PM (#27571451)
> So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd.

Shouldn't they be okay with getting vaccinated? They did it for their own reasons, and that's a good thing, but they're not martyrs or saints.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:47AM (#27571196)
I never asked the herd to do anything, thus I am not in any way obliged to them morally. They did it for their own protection. I was willing to accept the 1% of dying, even if no one was vaccinated.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dntrkv on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:38AM (#27571076)
> Vaccines introduce a foreign substance 100% of the time into your body

So does the virus. And all of our data shows the virus is much, much worse.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by dukeofdoom on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:40AM (#27571113)
yes, but by taking the vaccine 100% chance of doing that. Virus, only if I get it.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by MAGZine on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:51AM (#27571239)
You're weighing a real possibility against an unfounded one.

P(Complications|Covid) has a calculatable probability.

P(Complications|Vaccine) is not, because we don't even know if they exist. And further, we strongly suspect they don't.

In other words, I think you're trading one hand for (at best) one in the bush.

Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by krona on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:23PM (#27571535)
P(Complications|ChAdOx1) is definitely not zero, especially for people < 40 years of age.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by sethammons on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:27PM (#27571567)
Two of my brothers-in-law were hospitalized after receiving the vaccine.
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by ohlookabird on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:44PM (#27571716)
For what?
Re:Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank by rubidium on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:40AM (#27571108)
Appreciate the candor. Agree odds are low now of getting it.

When you’re healthy you get the vaccine for others, not yourself.

Studies so far show no difference in baby outcomes.