News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by OJFord on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:48AM (#27568287)
> Some events are low probability but high cost.

Yes, and I sometimes think about the inverse - that people like to hate on lottery players (which I'm not) with a clever sounding argument like E[X] < 1, so don't play, you'll lose.

But this fails to acknowledge the harder to model 'but I can pay £1 to play, I won't miss it, who cares, it's insignificant, and on the tiny chance I win, the win is significant'. I.e. 'but Var[X] is massive'.

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by lordnacho on Sunday June 20, 2021 @04:55AM (#27568318)
You're absolutely right, the thing to look at here is the St Petersburg problem.

You have a coin, and each time you don't get heads the payout doubles. Get heads and get the payout. What do you pay to play this?

It turns out that you can't work out an E[X] for this, as it's a series that doesn't converge. But also if you go around and ask people what they'd pay, surprisingly they don't say infinity. Expectation is thus not the last word in decision making.

Turns out utility is a thing that matters, and we can come up with some thoughts on it (von Neumann-Morgenstern etc).

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by portent on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:13AM (#27568388)
re: surprisingly they don't say infinity

I'm not sure it's that surprising, the expectation is only infinity if you think the person making the payout has the capacity to pay an infinite amount. The second you think this amount is finite (which must always be the case in reality), then the expectation becomes finite and probably quite small.

I agree in the more general point, expectation is not always the best tool for extremely rare / extremely significant scenarios.

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by Tomminn on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:32AM (#27569374)
The parent is correct, and shouldn't be downvoted IMO. If you set the max payout to world gdp of ~$100 trillion, you get an expected value of ~$50 for the game. So people are actually calculating expected value correctly with their intuition. It's just that in their instinctive calculation they're also making better assumptions about reality than mathematicians do.
Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by plmu on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:57AM (#27569500)
Indeed, it is one of the proposed solutions as listed in the corresponding wikipedia article on the St. Petersburg paradox. There is a table with quite low expected values, mapping the wealth of the bank to the expected value.
Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by arcsin on Sunday June 20, 2021 @06:46AM (#27568835)
I think there's two factors. One is the nonlinear utility of money, and the other is the cost/value of losing/winning.

In general money has a diminishing utility, your first dollar is worth more to you than your millionth dollar. In order for it to be worth it to play a -EV lottery not only does you utility graph need to be nonlinear, it cannot decrease monotonically. At some point your nth dollar needs to be worth more (to you) than your first dollar. For example, you have one dollar and a life saving drug for your terminal disease costs 1 million dollars. You would see a sudden spike in utility at the 1 million dollar mark. It would be rational to play the lottery in this case.

Another possibility is that the event of winning money or even just the thought of possibly winning that money gives you more value than simply having the money alone, and this tips the scale. This would be like the opposite of insurance. For some people the experience of losing, or worrying about the possibility of losing money is so negative that it still makes it worth it to buy insurance.

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by OJFord on Sunday June 20, 2021 @07:01AM (#27568912)
Payouts are also non-linear though, with enormous discontinuities.

Your millionth dollar might have less marginal utility, but you were never going to win 10^6 -1 dollars anyway. So really to consider marginal utility you need 'margins' as wide as the payouts. (Really stretching/breaking the meaning of marginal, but hopefully you see what I mean.)

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by Aerroon on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:04AM (#27588495)
You frequently see this same pattern in games. A low cost gamble with a low chance of success, but a huge payout. Players seem to (often) view it as worthwhile, because if you do succeed then the payout changes the entire experience. Keeping the cost spent on the gamble, however, would make little difference.
Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by chewz on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:22AM (#27568446)
Utility function of big lottery win is way larger then of string insignificant looses. For most people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility

Re:Insurance is like gambling, don't overdo it by IkmoIkmo on Sunday June 20, 2021 @06:07AM (#27568646)
Not a series of insignificant losses that, due to the low win-probability is such a long series, amounts to more money than the lottery win, and thereby cannot be called insignificant anymore, which is by definition how lotteries are set-up.