It seems a bit different when the two founders are the only ones doing it. Nobody coerced them, it's a decision they made for themselves. It's also different when it's crunch on a very finite timeline (the end of the runway) versus an open-ended expectation that you'll work until you die.

I have no idea what the work culture and expectations at Notion are today, I'm just going off the subject of this article.

As much as some may dislike this, putting in extra effort that pays off will always be looked upon positively by American society.

And I am glad for it. Honestly, I like the push/pull nature of effort as it is currently. I like that there's tension, that we have to constantly assess, "Am I doing enough?" to figure out where our personal lines are (and everyone is different). If anything, I'd suggest that we all get more assertive and confident where we draw that line, and comfortable with the consequences.

I think applying a standard "this is an appropriate amount of effort" across the board is a great way to hurt the explosive growth that we've all benefitted from these past 30 years.

> As much as some may dislike this, putting in extra effort that pays off will always be looked upon positively by American society.

Goes all the way back to the Puritans who founded the first colonies in early America. They were known for valuing work ethic, discipline, and frugality - the values espoused by their Protestant faith.

Unsurprising that those same values have become deeply ingrained in American society over the years.

It helps that those values happen to make a lot of money for people who aren’t doing all the work.

If I owned a double digit percentage of voting stocks in a company, I'd work 18+ hour days too. I'm the one giving myself the permission to do that and I'm the one directly benefiting from the work financially.

But just for salary? Hard pass, thank you.

Well said.

At least it was founders who benefit from doing this, instead of salaried folks working to enrich their boss.

Agree. They own the company, success or failure is on their name. A 2-person team on brink of failure doing week or two of 18-hour days to rescue the business (and reputation to lesser extent) is reasonable to me.

By contrast, salaried folks with no equity should not be cranking out those hours, IMO.

It's definitely unhealthy and unsustainable, I agree with you. Doing it for a longer period of time must have some long-term negative effects on one's body.

There's something on the other side, though - when I was in my early 20s I could be obsessed about building things, even if it was just a project for university. When I woke up in the morning I was thinking about the next thing I was going to implement, and I could stay up till late night because I didn't want to stop coding. It wasn't healthy, thankfully it never lasterd very long, but I sometimes miss that feeling of being so passionate about building something, because for whatever reason I don't get that feeling anymore.

I noticed that whenever I've had that "just one more thing" passion, I've rarely been so productive on the following days.

All employees should be grateful, when their companies have incredible founders, executives, or owners who do what needs to be done for the survivability and outlook of the business.

In the same way excellent, productive employees should be compensated by their employers.

Well it seemed to be what was required of this person in this situation at this time.

The way i read this comment is that you are unhappy that people put in extra effort into their passion and dreams and instead people should just strive to be mediocre.

Building successful startups requires effort. Effort is not sufficient, but it is mandatory.

You can frown upon it but this is reality.

The reason that doesn’t work is because you can’t sustain it. If you save your startup from the brink of death in under a year, sustainability isn’t needed. Plenty of people do university in similar circumstances. People in China do 996 and it works for them.

18 hour day still leaves 6 hours for sleep, assuming you structure the rest of your life efficiently.

> People in China do 996 and it works for them.

I’m not sure I’d phrase that so lightly. The 996 work model has been compared to “modern slavery” [0]. I’m not sure it’s comparable to the article either, since 996 isn’t a choice that offers future rewards. Working 18 hours for a short term can be worth it if you’re a (co)founder saving your business. Theoretically he could retire early after making a few million off Notion’s success, and get back those hours lost to work.

[0]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acfi.12682

Only do this if you’re being compensated for it properly. Otherwise you’re just wrecking your body for someone else’s profit.