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Re:Spatial Audio by basisword on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:57AM (#27539068)
This sounds like the kind of thing someone would write when the world switched from mono to stereo. Quite a few parts of it are completely wrong too not to mention insulting ("... more music is being made by individuals in bedrooms, home studios, on a budget. They have neither the equipment nor the skill to mix in Dolby Atmos").

Apple has done quite a poor job showcasing it so far. Some of the tracks they've put in their playlists sound like crap. On the otherhand some of them sound fantastic. Jazz in Atmos is wonderful. It's also important to note that 'head tracking' comes with iOS 15 and in my experience improves spatial further.

A lot of music made for stereo won't remix well. If you listen to most of the rock tracks they don't sound good because they don't have a lot going on. 3 or 4 instruments + 2 or 3 vocals tracks aren't going to take advantage of spatial. Listening to some modern pop with lots of synths and layers upon layers of backing vocals, the experience is much better.

Atmos/spatial is a new tool like any other. People will write and record songs that work for it and take advantage of it. They'll use it creatively. That's what will be interesting. Most remixed songs from the 60's aren't the least bit interesting but the possibilities for the future are.

I could be wrong and it could end up largely ignored, time will tell. But there is the opportunity for a lot of creativity regardless of what cranky old music critics think.

Re:Spatial Audio by globular-toast on Friday June 18, 2021 @04:10AM (#27548377)
I'm confused. Did you even read the article? They are not talking about Atmos/spatial audio in general, they are talking about older mixes being "remixed" on mass without any input from the original artists and engineers.
Re:Spatial Audio by slowhand09 on Friday June 18, 2021 @09:48AM (#27550262)
I read the article. Totally different, but extremely entertaining https://www.bratproductions.com/mixes/mashups/brat_everlong_...
Re:Spatial Audio by ricardobeat on Friday June 18, 2021 @07:29PM (#27556201)
The songs are being remixed for Atmos. It's the same as someone remixing old mono songs in stereo, without the author/producer's input.
Re:Spatial Audio by voisin on Friday June 18, 2021 @06:47AM (#27549104)
Presumably with consent from the current rights holders.
Re:Spatial Audio by rodgerd on Thursday June 17, 2021 @07:10PM (#27545500)
> Quite a few parts of it are completely wrong

Well, the whole thing is an anonymous email. And the "remixing by the truckload" doesn't seem in evidence given the low number of tracks released thus far; there are many more available on Tidal in Atmos currently.

> Jazz in Atmos is wonderful.

I've been very impressed by the classical tracks thus far, which have mostly used a hint of surround to let you feel as though you're at the front of a concert, with the players in a crescnt moon; and a bit of a delay in the rears to create the sensation of space echoing behind.

Some of the rock/pop mixes have been very interesting; the Linkin Park mixes use the surround/rear to create a "voices inside my head" effect where it makes sense on with the lyrics. Robert Palmer actually sounds like a much better singer on the remixes than the originals, with the guitars pushed out to the side rather than stomping all over the singer (whether they applied a little autotune as well, who knows?). I don't much like The Doors, but the use of surround in Riders on the Storm is remarkable.

There are some very poor remixes too, but that's the case for any re-engineering. As for the idea that only the original engineer or producer can make something work, well, that's just idiotic on a number of levels.

Re:Spatial Audio by jtbayly on Thursday June 17, 2021 @07:57PM (#27545812)
> Most remixed songs from the 60's aren't the least bit interesting but the possibilities for the future are.

Then why start by screwing up the old music?

Re:Spatial Audio by Cybotron5000 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @06:49PM (#27545326)
I totally agree - there are real possibilities to do interesting new creative work afforded by this, particularly if the barriers to entry are kept low/non-proprietary/open-to-all (…as another poster noted, it would have perhaps been nice if an open standard had been used instead…). I would only add that I think there are even more interesting possibilities for using the same technological capabilities with AR. That was the focus of the iPhone app. I wrote, which was more along the lines of Microsoft Soundscape: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/soundscape/ (but to be fair, before Microsoft Soundscape was available :)
Re:Spatial Audio by skywhopper on Friday June 18, 2021 @08:27AM (#27549601)
The main question for me, beyond the rights of the artists is “can I listen to the version I prefer”? Apple Music has been pretty bad about the issue of multiple mixes of a certain track getting attached to the wrong album (or in odd cases subbing in a live version for an album track). If I don’t like what the Atmos mix of [favorite song] sounds like I’ll be unhappy. But most people probably won’t care.
Re:Spatial Audio by lux on Thursday June 17, 2021 @06:44PM (#27545273)
Totally agree but wanted to add a point I found interesting doing some spatial audio work which is synths tend to spatialize poorly compared to more organic instruments. You can dirty them up with additional effects like distortion or an exciter, but I think it’s something to do with the evenness of the waveforms compared to the real world variance of a string or vocal cord vibrating.
Re:Spatial Audio by noahadavis on Friday June 18, 2021 @02:30AM (#27547886)
Sorry, but I completely disagree. If what you were saying was true, then physical synths would have the same problems in live performances. I think the problem is not the instrument, but rather how people are used to using the instrument. If you're used to mixing synths for stereo, then your ideas for how to make a synth sound good beyond stereo are much weaker.

Also, there's so much you can do to the sound of a synth and so many powerful synths out there. If you're complaining about the sound being too smooth or simple, you just haven't played around with powerful synths often enough.

Re:Spatial Audio by lux on Friday June 18, 2021 @01:17PM (#27552602)
I was giving an anecdote, yo. Calm down. Synths in the digital environment of a spatial audio engine, which I've done work in both programmatically and as a musician/sound engineer, has problems with spatializing the unnatural waveforms that synths produce. Humans have trouble pinpointing where those sounds are coming from. It's easy to work around, and no one is saying "don't use synths in spatial audio", just that there are considerations to be made to make them work well in that environment. Just like you don't want to pre-apply reverb because that's going to be generated by the spatial engine.

Here's a link with a bit about sine waves, but I've found the same to be true (to a lesser extend) with saw, triangle, and square waves too.

https://developer.oculus.com/learn/audio-intro-sounddesign

Re:Spatial Audio by Mediterraneo10 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:12PM (#27546709)
There is a sixty-year tradition now of pieces for instrumentalists + tape or live electronics, where it is the synthesized material that is spatialized through loudspeakers around the audience.
Re:Spatial Audio by lux on Friday June 18, 2021 @01:12PM (#27552559)
Completely different context than using a synth in a digital realm. I'm not saying you can't spatialize synths, but that the waveforms are unlike sounds we encounter in the natural world so it takes adding a bit of "naturalness" to them to help our ears understand where they are in the space around us. That's something that's harder to do in a digital environment like a spatial audio engine, but is easy enough to work around. Just an ancedote on spatialized audio in software, which again is different than what you're talking about.
Re:Spatial Audio by zamalek on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:14PM (#27545923)
Many people in the audiophile community believe that measurements and bit-perfect are the entire scope of good sound. The author is clearly someone who appreciates good audio, with mid-range headphones.

The smaller part of the community acknowledges that beauty is in the eye/ear of the beholder/listener.

When it comes to headphones, though, audio is to some degree already spatial. Apple does seem to be spreading butter on butter here.

Re:Spatial Audio by ricardobeat on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:38PM (#27546070)
> Listening to some modern pop with lots of synths and layers upon layers of backing vocals, the experience is much better.

I've listened to quite a few pop songs I know, and without fail they sound much muddier in Atmos. Vocals are recessed, the bass loses definition. The improvement in sound stage feels better when you switch back and forth, but paradoxically the sound quality is worse.