I don't think we should be lying to children. We should teach them honestly, even if the truth sometimes hurts. Maybe some of them will eventually be able to make life better for those who are less fortunate.

And just because somebody has next to no chance of living a cushy western lifestyle doesn't mean they're screwed and shouldn't bother. People can still live fulfilling lives.

I think it's better to be realistic about your chances and it may help to drive the political discourse into the right direction as well. After all this is a political issue.

In the end as others have said here it's more important to have a balanced, happy life and good health than to chase the lotto ticket in a rigged game.

It's really not. Hard work does lead to a better life. It's fulfilling in its own right, at least for me. That's why I go to the gym and push myself regularly. If I loaf around all day, I don't feel well. I find meaning and satisfaction from being productive or putting in effort. It's not only societal but biological.

Things are harder for some people, sure. But for children, the bar is so low in the US that a minimal amount of effort could put you on the right track. My experience was basically that showing up and doing what you're supposed to do puts you above 50% of your peers. Consider Hoboken High School. 12% of students are math proficient. NJ is 42, while the graduation rate is 90%. The bar is very low.

[0] https://www.publicschoolreview.com/hoboken-high-school-profi...

That's just a strawman. We're not talking about winning the lottery. This is about whether you improve your outcome by participating in the workforce in some meaningful way.

From the article:

>Despite strong economic performance, a majority of respondents in every developed market do not believe they will be better off in five years’ time.

That shows a disconnect between opportunity out there and people's feeling that they will take part in that opportunity.

But we're being fundamentally dishonest if we end the conversation there. People who are born poor have to work much harder to get out of it. Mistakes or misfortune that wouldn't be a big deal for someone in the middle class can be catastrophic for the poor. Ignoring that doesn't help anyone.

The point isn't "what do we teach our children?" The point is "how do we make society better for everyone?" And the individual view does not help with the latter.

Work on programs to make sure these basic things are available to everybody. Start mentorship and apprenticeship programs early. Work for a strong social safety net so that people don't have to worry if they start a business and it fails, they won't be homeless or without healthcare.

So don't teach hopelessness. Instead recognize the failures and fix them.

You might want your children to think social mobility is possible if they work hard enough

But you don't want your politicians to think social mobility is possible through hard work. Because if they don't know you've got a social mobility problem, how are they going to fix it?

>> You might want your children to think social mobility is possible if they work hard enough

I'd definitely want my children to work hard, understand how the world works, but I also don't want them to spin their wheels for 25yrs only to realize their car was on a jack and not going anywhere.

There are glass ceilings in certain countries and especially in certain industries. Recognizing that is important IMHO. I hope we break all such glass ceilings, but one has to recognize they are present, recognize the odds, and then make a decision to give away large parts of your time to attempt to do that.

Most don't disagree with that. The point is that the rate is different for different people. For some people, a decent live (house, bed, food) will take a lot of effort. For others, they might be born already into that.

What's important is that this is a discussion about policy and systemic problems. You can't address systemic issues with individual solutions (such as "poverty would be solved if people worked hard"), it's nonsense the same way it is to address individual problems with systemic solutions ("if you're homeless, ask the government to enact affordable housing policies).

My life still has purpose. I just don't work very hard.

I would tell them that they better advocate for a more equitable society or, yes, they are screwed. Too often self-empowerment is used as a way to tamp down any kind of organized push for equity. This is very convenient for those that benefit from the status quo.

I would argue that a truly useless model for life is pretending that the deck isn't stacked and letting those stacking it make out like bandits.

I can take a guess. Notice GP's emphasis on starting conditions without an explanation of where those starting conditions come from. If personal effort is fruitless (an "illusion," as GP puts it), then they must originate with something else. In this ideology that's usually thought to be exploitation, one group oppressing another and getting rich off their labor.

It's popular in part because it's partly true; stealing is certainly one way to get rich. But so is building. It doesn't have to be zero sum. Unfortunately it's easy to believe that it is because it excuses mediocrity. It's harder to believe that every choice matters because it entails more suffering in the short term.

What you say is that one should lie to people for their own good.

Also practically, none of that implies that doing absolutely nothing is a good idea. You are better off to work then to not work. It makes you eat better, buy new computer once in a while or new sofa. However, don't expect to become rich by working hard in your dead end job with zero chance of promotion.

And you wont be telling those people anything new. They all know that no matter how hard you work at moving those Amazon box in warehouse or driving Uber, they are earning for immediate survival and wont raise through the ranks.

If you say upfront that the odds are against you, then I think it can spark more conscious decisions.

I would tell them "dont get fooled by tales of money. Take care of your body, your relationships, because thats where your wealth is. "

"You're being held back by a system that works against you! Send me to Washington, and I'll fix it!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.